I'm sending a message to publishers.

Duiker · 04-07-2010, 02:27 PM

I do not agree with the new pricing model for ebooks but feel bad for the authors whom I think will ultimately suffer a decline in sales. I recently pirated a book by one of my favourite authors and I am going to send him a personal cheque for $9.99 care of his publisher. This way I get the book I want at a price I feel is fair while also sending a message to his publisher.
Now imagine if everyone started doing that...

GA Russell · 04-07-2010, 02:34 PM

A revolutionary idea! Let us know when the check is deposited.

abookreader · 04-07-2010, 02:59 PM

ay!

While I applaud your willingness to stand by your convictions I personally do not have the bravery that would be required to confess a theft in writing and include a tiny slip of paper giving my name and address.

But if you end up in a jail cell, I'll happily send you a couple of "Thinking of You!" greeting cards.

Duiker · 04-07-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abookreader

ay!

While I applaud your willingness to stand by your convictions I personally do not have the bravery that would be required to confess a theft in writing and include a tiny slip of paper giving my name and address.

But if you end up in a jail cell, I'll happily send you a couple of "Thinking of You!" greeting cards.

Way to plant the seed of fear. Do you work for a publishing company?

poohbear_nc · 04-07-2010, 03:51 PM

You can use an anonymous money order.

FizzyWater · 04-07-2010, 09:15 PM

Can money orders really be anonymous? I thought the place where you buy them keeps a log of the purchaser and intended receiver of all money orders...

HarryT · 04-08-2010, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duiker

I do not agree with the new pricing model for ebooks but feel bad for the authors whom I think will ultimately suffer a decline in sales. I recently pirated a book by one of my favourite authors and I am going to send him a personal cheque for $9.99 care of his publisher. This way I get the book I want at a price I feel is fair while also sending a message to his publisher.
Now imagine if everyone started doing that...

With respect, your personal view that the price is too high is not a valid justification for obtaining the book illegally. Why not just read something else instead? Do you take other things without paying for them if you think that they are too expensive?

langshipley · 04-08-2010, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duiker

I recently pirated a book by one of my favourite authors

And here I'm wondering how you did it. ;-p

luqmaninbmore · 04-08-2010, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

With respect, your personal view that the price is too high is not a valid justification for obtaining the book illegally. Why not just read something else instead? Do you take other things without paying for them if you think that they are too expensive?

Once again, copyright infringement is not theft. It is separate type of illegal action. Confusing the two does nothing but confuse the relevant ethical discourse to the benefit of the entrenched powers. In other words, people's hackles get raised when you talk about stealing. They don't when you talk about intellectual "property" violations.

Luqman

Duiker · 04-08-2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

With respect, your personal view that the price is too high is not a valid justification for obtaining the book illegally. Why not just read something else instead? Do you take other things without paying for them if you think that they are too expensive?

My personal views are completely valid to me. Personal views are the catalyst for change.

Duiker · 04-08-2010, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

Can money orders really be anonymous? I thought the place where you buy them keeps a log of the purchaser and intended receiver of all money orders...

I will look into this and let you know.
Of course I could always send cash but then I'd never know if it really got to the intended party. If only I had his home address. I'm going to do some digging.

GA Russell · 04-08-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duiker

...while also sending a message to his publisher...

Quote:

If only I had his home address.

But if you send the money directly to the author, you won't be sending a message to the publisher, which I thought was the primary goal of the endeavor.

Xenophon · 04-08-2010, 11:20 AM

In a related instance, I once (back in the mid-90s) weirded out the agent for a couple of musicians. I'd heard a limited-issue (and self-produced -- no record label involved!) CD of theirs that I really REALLY liked, and wanted a copy. They were sold out. I couldn't find it new. I couldn't find one used. It was just plain flat-out unavailable... everywhere. Eventually, I borrowed a friend's copy of the disc and burned my own. Then, I wrote a letter to the agent explaining what I had done and asking them to tell me how large a check I should send to pay for the disc and also (of course) who should get the money.

About a week after I mailed that letter I had a rather odd telephone conversation with the agent. They couldn't believe that anyone would volunteer to pay for a "pirated" disc. Once I convinced them that I was serious—and that I'd've bought it in the market if it hadn't been made of unobtanium—they told me that they'd get back to me on it. About two weeks later, I got a formal note telling me that I should send $1 each to BMI and ASCAP (referencing account numbers X and Y, respectively), and that both musicians and agent would waive their cut if I would donate $8 or more to my favorite charity. They explained that processing the payment for a single copy of the album would cost everyone more in labor than it would bring in revenue-wise!

It seems that ASCAP and BMI are contractually obligated to collect the royalties regardless (and to then disburse them to the appropriate artists and composers, of course), so they had me send the payment referencing the appropriate account information for the album. The musicians (and their agent) chose to waive their payment because it was cheaper to do so than it would have been to take my money. And they all chalked up the time spent figuring out these details as "part of the cost of doing business"—specifically, learning how to handle such things should they ever arise again in future.

My personal ethics say that one should pay (or at least attempt to pay) full freight or do without. (Note that library and used copies count as paying full freight in this context). YMMV, of course.

By comparison, in Duiker's case, he's trying to pay the artist (author) directly. That's quite laudable, but it cuts out some others who really matter. Given that he didn't use the services of a retailer, I have no problem with not paying there. But the publisher has

fronted advance money on the book
provided editorial services
provided proof-reading, layout, copy-editing, etc.
done some advertising (maybe, maybe not)
incurred various production expenses related to the book (different in paper and bits, but still real...)

and isn't getting paid for any of that. Nor are they making any profit on the "sale" (non-sale, really, but...).

I would argue that Duiker would have done better to tell the publisher that they lost the sale entirely but that he'd have bought at a more attractive price-point. Or, he could have approached it as a negotiation—perhaps by sending that check for $9.99 and asking them to reply with a download link if they deposit the check (thus making the transaction at a lower price).

Even with all my quibbles, however, good for Duiker for trying to do something more than simply "pirating" (Ghod I hate that word!) the book. I simply feel that it wasn't quite enough of a "something."

As with any question of ethics, YMMV.

Xenophon

HarryT · 04-08-2010, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

Once again, copyright infringement is not theft. It is separate type of illegal action.

Perhaps you'd be good enough to point out where I said that it was?

mykoffee · 04-08-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

Can money orders really be anonymous? I thought the place where you buy them keeps a log of the purchaser and intended receiver of all money orders...

We sell money orders at my place of work (the post office) and there are no logs kept as to who purchased them. Serial numbers are kept only so that they can be traced if lost or stolen.

If it were me I certainly would not include my name and address with any kind of note that I illegally downloaded a copy of anything!

Linda

04-07-2010, 02:27 PM	#1
Duiker Addict Posts: 258 Karma: 30680 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Device: Kindle Paperwhite	I'm sending a message to publishers. I do not agree with the new pricing model for ebooks but feel bad for the authors whom I think will ultimately suffer a decline in sales. I recently pirated a book by one of my favourite authors and I am going to send him a personal cheque for $9.99 care of his publisher. This way I get the book I want at a price I feel is fair while also sending a message to his publisher. Now imagine if everyone started doing that...

04-08-2010, 11:20 AM	#13
Xenophon curmudgeon Posts: 1,481 Karma: 5748190 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Redwood City, CA USA Device: Kobo Aura HD, (ex)nook, (ex)PRS-700, (ex)PRS-500	In a related instance, I once (back in the mid-90s) weirded out the agent for a couple of musicians. I'd heard a limited-issue (and self-produced -- no record label involved!) CD of theirs that I really REALLY liked, and wanted a copy. They were sold out. I couldn't find it new. I couldn't find one used. It was just plain flat-out unavailable... everywhere. Eventually, I borrowed a friend's copy of the disc and burned my own. Then, I wrote a letter to the agent explaining what I had done and asking them to tell me how large a check I should send to pay for the disc and also (of course) who should get the money. About a week after I mailed that letter I had a rather odd telephone conversation with the agent. They couldn't believe that anyone would volunteer to pay for a "pirated" disc. Once I convinced them that I was serious—and that I'd've bought it in the market if it hadn't been made of unobtanium—they told me that they'd get back to me on it. About two weeks later, I got a formal note telling me that I should send $1 each to BMI and ASCAP (referencing account numbers X and Y, respectively), and that both musicians and agent would waive their cut if I would donate $8 or more to my favorite charity. They explained that processing the payment for a single copy of the album would cost everyone more in labor than it would bring in revenue-wise! It seems that ASCAP and BMI are contractually obligated to collect the royalties regardless (and to then disburse them to the appropriate artists and composers, of course), so they had me send the payment referencing the appropriate account information for the album. The musicians (and their agent) chose to waive their payment because it was cheaper to do so than it would have been to take my money. And they all chalked up the time spent figuring out these details as "part of the cost of doing business"—specifically, learning how to handle such things should they ever arise again in future. My personal ethics say that one should pay (or at least attempt to pay) full freight or do without. (Note that library and used copies count as paying full freight in this context). YMMV, of course. By comparison, in Duiker's case, he's trying to pay the artist (author) directly. That's quite laudable, but it cuts out some others who really matter. Given that he didn't use the services of a retailer, I have no problem with not paying there. But the publisher has fronted advance money on the book provided editorial services provided proof-reading, layout, copy-editing, etc. done some advertising (maybe, maybe not) incurred various production expenses related to the book (different in paper and bits, but still real...) and isn't getting paid for any of that. Nor are they making any profit on the "sale" (non-sale, really, but...). I would argue that Duiker would have done better to tell the publisher that they lost the sale entirely but that he'd have bought at a more attractive price-point. Or, he could have approached it as a negotiation—perhaps by sending that check for $9.99 and asking them to reply with a download link if they deposit the check (thus making the transaction at a lower price). Even with all my quibbles, however, good for Duiker for trying to do something more than simply "pirating" (Ghod I hate that word!) the book. I simply feel that it wasn't quite enough of a "something." As with any question of ethics, YMMV. Xenophon

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04-07-2010, 02:34 PM	#2
GA Russell Montreal wins Grey Cup! Posts: 7,583 Karma: 31484197 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite	A revolutionary idea! Let us know when the check is deposited.

04-07-2010, 02:59 PM	#3
abookreader Wizard Posts: 1,516 Karma: 2567610 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Kindles - Keyboard, Fire, 2-US, iPhone, iPAD	ay! While I applaud your willingness to stand by your convictions I personally do not have the bravery that would be required to confess a theft in writing and include a tiny slip of paper giving my name and address. But if you end up in a jail cell, I'll happily send you a couple of "Thinking of You!" greeting cards.

04-07-2010, 03:51 PM	#5
poohbear_nc Now what? Posts: 58,865 Karma: 135181808 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Durham, NC Device: Every Kindle Ever Made & To Be Made!	You can use an anonymous money order.

04-07-2010, 09:15 PM	#6
FizzyWater You kids get off my lawn! Posts: 4,220 Karma: 73492664 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Columbus, Ohio Device: Oasis 2 and Libra H2O and half a dozen older models I can't let go of	Can money orders really be anonymous? I thought the place where you buy them keeps a log of the purchaser and intended receiver of all money orders...

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