KF8 Output - Page 5

kovidgoyal · 05-02-2012, 12:09 AM

@Crafter: There was a bug that caused older Kindles to not recognize KF8 mobi files as mobi. Probably the same bug caused your issue. It is fixed for the next calibre release.

kovidgoyal · 05-03-2012, 08:01 AM

@Strether: The next calibre release will have a workaround for the Kindle Touch black pages bug (at least for the Kim book, there may be other ways that bug is triggerred).

Strether · 05-03-2012, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

@Strether: The next calibre release will have a workaround for the Kindle Touch black pages bug (at least for the Kim book, there may be other ways that bug is triggerred).

Thanks for letting me know, Kovid. I'm looking forward to trying the new release.

Jim

kovidgoyal · 05-04-2012, 02:19 AM

@Crafter: I tried sending a kf8 file created with kindlegen via email. It worked, but the file that was delivered by Amazon was the MOBI 6 version. It appears amazon's personal documents service doesn't support KF8 as yet. I haven't been able to figure out why amazon doesn't do the same with calibre produced KF8. I suspect we will just have to wait until amazon updates their personal document service.

notimp · 05-04-2012, 03:57 PM

Kovid, one question -

I just installed calibre .50 and converted some of my created ePubs into azw3 (KF8) files and pushed them onto a Kindle Touch. When opening the files and comparing them to their mobi equivalents two things became apparent.

- The linespacing options on the Kindle Touch show different line spacing results. While on a mobi file the line spacing options are more closely together, on the azw3 they are further apart witch allows for bigger line spacing (wo modifying the src) altogether which is somewhat appealing. You thoughts on the metter of differing line spacing? Its the Kindles interpreter thats responsible i reckon? Not some css line?

- Alltogether not appealing ist the second one. On mobi files when you formated a text with justify, there is a maximum length that a space between words would not exceed. If the specific line therefore would not be long enough to fill the entire width, there would be a little gap on the right side of the page - but more important the spaces would not be stretched to a point where it would distract fom the reading process. With azw3 files this is gone altogether. Lines are always stretched to fit the width, when justify formating is applied. Again. The Kindles interpreter, or something that could be influenced by css? And if so - how,

I would really like to disable this behaviour for azw3 files - at least if I decide to. This only becomes a problem, because the Kindle still doesn't support hyphenation in any form (probably because of the language specific rules).

Crafter · 05-04-2012, 04:19 PM

Kovid -- thank you so much for your great program and your ongoing support! I updated Calibre today, reinstalled the tweak, sent a simple text KF8 file emailed to Amazon to my K3 and again, received their "The following document could not be delivered to the Kindle you specified...." I side loaded this same document to my K3 via Calibre directly (very handy tool, indeed!) -- I had tried a tweak, so the only mobi type surviving should have been a KF8, and the KF8 works perfectly on the K3, so the problem seems to be with Amazon at the moment. My K3, though an older Kindle model, seems to not have a problem with KF8 reading correctly.

One interesting bug in the Kindle for PC (new version 1.9.3) regarding the KF8 is that the document will sometimes go into "stuck mode." When using the page advance it will go into a loop between two locations and not advance. I've had consistant problems with Kindle for PC being buggy.

HarryT · 05-04-2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crafter

Kovid -- thank you so much for your great program and your ongoing support! I updated Calibre today, reinstalled the tweak, sent a simple text KF8 file emailed to Amazon to my K3 and again, received their "The following document could not be delivered to the Kindle you specified...." I side loaded this same document to my K3 via Calibre directly (very handy tool, indeed!) -- I had tried a tweak, so the only mobi type surviving should have been a KF8, and the KF8 works perfectly on the K3, so the problem seems to be with Amazon at the moment. My K3, though an older Kindle model, seems to not have a problem with KF8 reading correctly.

The Kindle 3 does not have KF8 support. I imagine that Calibre would probably have converted it to Mobi before sending it.

JSWolf · 05-04-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The Kindle 3 does not have KF8 support. I imagine that Calibre would probably have converted it to Mobi before sending it.

Or the K3 is reading the Mobi part of the file.

InsulinJunkie72 · 05-04-2012, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notimp

The linespacing options on the Kindle Touch show different line spacing results. While on a mobi file the line spacing options are more closely together, on the azw3 they are further apart witch allows for bigger line spacing

That's the Kindle Touch's KF8 renderer's default spacing. Files created with KindleGen/Kindle Previewer exhibit the same behavior.

Currently the LINE-HEIGHT property isn't supported on the Touch, so adjusting via CSS (rather than manually via the Font menu) doesn't even work.

Strether · 05-04-2012, 05:46 PM

Do you have to reinstall the tweak with the new version in order to get a KF8 book? Not clear in the announcement of the new version. I merely refers to a tweak maybe being necessary if you have problems getting a workable version of the book.

Jim

JSWolf · 05-04-2012, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strether

Do you have to reinstall the tweak with the new version in order to get a KF8 book? Not clear in the announcement of the new version. I merely refers to a tweak maybe being necessary if you have problems getting a workable version of the book.

Jim

I just checked and the tweak is in place after the update.

Strether · 05-04-2012, 05:55 PM

Jon, is that because you left the tweak in place when you installed the new version?

Jim

Edit: I ask, because I don't see it in the tweaks section of my new version. If I'm not mistaken, there is a new tweak in there, but it has something to do with Epub.

notimp · 05-04-2012, 06:02 PM

@InsulinJunkie72: Thanks for the confirmation and the clarification of line-height not being supported.

I just embarked on a CSS3 crash course and as far as i can see the new justify behaviour seems to be standard compliant. Full width expansion (on text-align justify) regardless of the increase of word-spacing (quadruple, quintuple the normal spacing, why not?!) seems to be the default. It may or may not be reigned in by the new word-spacing property which can be set to {(optimum) min max}, but I just tried it to no avail in an azw3 (checked with the Kindle Previewer).

This is a HUGE oversight on Amazons part if it turnes out to be true. There are languages (take German for example) where the average wordlength is higher than in english, combine it with the fact that the Kindle still doesn't support hyphanation, and top it off with the new KF8 behavior of just expanding word-spacing without any limits just to get the text justified over the full width of the page, and you end up with a not at all pleasant to read textlayout...

*facepalm*

Strether · 05-04-2012, 06:41 PM

I reinstalled the tweak and converted "Kim" and the black page artifact problem was not longer there. It does have the line space problem reported by notimp above, though, so that you have to change that option on your Kindle Touch. I tried converting a regular mobi file using the tweak on another book and got the same line space problem.

It would be a real nuisance having to change the space setting on each novel, so I've deleted the tweak for now. When I did that on the mobi file novel, the line spacing went back to "normal".

Jim

JSWolf · 05-04-2012, 06:52 PM

I've read elsewhere that the line-space is larger then it should be. I think it was 200%.

05-04-2012, 03:57 PM	#65
notimp Addict Posts: 248 Karma: 892441 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: K2i	Kovid, one question - I just installed calibre .50 and converted some of my created ePubs into azw3 (KF8) files and pushed them onto a Kindle Touch. When opening the files and comparing them to their mobi equivalents two things became apparent. - The linespacing options on the Kindle Touch show different line spacing results. While on a mobi file the line spacing options are more closely together, on the azw3 they are further apart witch allows for bigger line spacing (wo modifying the src) altogether which is somewhat appealing. You thoughts on the metter of differing line spacing? Its the Kindles interpreter thats responsible i reckon? Not some css line? - Alltogether not appealing ist the second one. On mobi files when you formated a text with justify, there is a maximum length that a space between words would not exceed. If the specific line therefore would not be long enough to fill the entire width, there would be a little gap on the right side of the page - but more important the spaces would not be stretched to a point where it would distract fom the reading process. With azw3 files this is gone altogether. Lines are always stretched to fit the width, when justify formating is applied. Again. The Kindles interpreter, or something that could be influenced by css? And if so - how, I would really like to disable this behaviour for azw3 files - at least if I decide to. This only becomes a problem, because the Kindle still doesn't support hyphenation in any form (probably because of the language specific rules). Last edited by notimp; 05-04-2012 at 06:11 PM.

05-04-2012, 05:55 PM	#72
Strether Guru Posts: 746 Karma: 2825929 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fresno Device: Kindle 1; iPad Air; iPhone 7; Kobo Libra; Kindle Oasis 3	Jon, is that because you left the tweak in place when you installed the new version? Jim Edit: I ask, because I don't see it in the tweaks section of my new version. If I'm not mistaken, there is a new tweak in there, but it has something to do with Epub. Last edited by Strether; 05-04-2012 at 05:59 PM.

05-04-2012, 06:02 PM	#73
notimp Addict Posts: 248 Karma: 892441 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: K2i	@InsulinJunkie72: Thanks for the confirmation and the clarification of line-height not being supported. I just embarked on a CSS3 crash course and as far as i can see the new justify behaviour seems to be standard compliant. Full width expansion (on text-align justify) regardless of the increase of word-spacing (quadruple, quintuple the normal spacing, why not?!) seems to be the default. It may or may not be reigned in by the new word-spacing property which can be set to {(optimum) min max}, but I just tried it to no avail in an azw3 (checked with the Kindle Previewer). This is a HUGE oversight on Amazons part if it turnes out to be true. There are languages (take German for example) where the average wordlength is higher than in english, combine it with the fact that the Kindle still doesn't support hyphanation, and top it off with the new KF8 behavior of just expanding word-spacing without any limits just to get the text justified over the full width of the page, and you end up with a not at all pleasant to read textlayout... facepalm Last edited by notimp; 05-04-2012 at 06:15 PM.

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05-02-2012, 12:09 AM	#61
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,858 Karma: 22666666 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	@Crafter: There was a bug that caused older Kindles to not recognize KF8 mobi files as mobi. Probably the same bug caused your issue. It is fixed for the next calibre release.

05-03-2012, 08:01 AM	#62
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,858 Karma: 22666666 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	@Strether: The next calibre release will have a workaround for the Kindle Touch black pages bug (at least for the Kim book, there may be other ways that bug is triggerred).

05-04-2012, 02:19 AM	#64
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,858 Karma: 22666666 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	@Crafter: I tried sending a kf8 file created with kindlegen via email. It worked, but the file that was delivered by Amazon was the MOBI 6 version. It appears amazon's personal documents service doesn't support KF8 as yet. I haven't been able to figure out why amazon doesn't do the same with calibre produced KF8. I suspect we will just have to wait until amazon updates their personal document service.

05-04-2012, 04:19 PM	#66
Crafter Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Los Angeles Device: Kindle Paperwhite, iPad Air, iPad Mini	Kovid -- thank you so much for your great program and your ongoing support! I updated Calibre today, reinstalled the tweak, sent a simple text KF8 file emailed to Amazon to my K3 and again, received their "The following document could not be delivered to the Kindle you specified...." I side loaded this same document to my K3 via Calibre directly (very handy tool, indeed!) -- I had tried a tweak, so the only mobi type surviving should have been a KF8, and the KF8 works perfectly on the K3, so the problem seems to be with Amazon at the moment. My K3, though an older Kindle model, seems to not have a problem with KF8 reading correctly. One interesting bug in the Kindle for PC (new version 1.9.3) regarding the KF8 is that the document will sometimes go into "stuck mode." When using the page advance it will go into a loop between two locations and not advance. I've had consistant problems with Kindle for PC being buggy.

05-04-2012, 05:46 PM	#70
Strether Guru Posts: 746 Karma: 2825929 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fresno Device: Kindle 1; iPad Air; iPhone 7; Kobo Libra; Kindle Oasis 3	Do you have to reinstall the tweak with the new version in order to get a KF8 book? Not clear in the announcement of the new version. I merely refers to a tweak maybe being necessary if you have problems getting a workable version of the book. Jim

05-04-2012, 06:41 PM	#74
Strether Guru Posts: 746 Karma: 2825929 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fresno Device: Kindle 1; iPad Air; iPhone 7; Kobo Libra; Kindle Oasis 3	I reinstalled the tweak and converted "Kim" and the black page artifact problem was not longer there. It does have the line space problem reported by notimp above, though, so that you have to change that option on your Kindle Touch. I tried converting a regular mobi file using the tweak on another book and got the same line space problem. It would be a real nuisance having to change the space setting on each novel, so I've deleted the tweak for now. When I did that on the mobi file novel, the line spacing went back to "normal". Jim

05-04-2012, 06:52 PM	#75
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,983 Karma: 128903378 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I've read elsewhere that the line-space is larger then it should be. I think it was 200%.

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