Calibre difficult to use with touch screen?

[Deskisamess]

If the screen senses two touches at the same time, it will respond the same as a "pinch to zoom" command. Even if the two touches are across the screen from each other.

My husband struggles a bit with touch screens and this issue is a bugaboo for him.

[kovidgoyal]

Originally Posted by apricoto

I was in flow (continuous? not pages) mode. As for whether the screen was pinched or simply touched I can't advise, since I did not do it intentionally.

"use flow mode ...to be precisely back" ?? How?

If you are in flow mode and you change font size, the viewer remembers its place exactly. Whatever was at the top of the page, remains at the top of the page after the font size change.

[kovidgoyal]

@DEskiamess: Currently not only do you have to touch the screen at two points you also have to move your fingers by more than 10 pixels for it to be recognized as a pinch. I can increase that threshold a bit, that might help.

[apricoto]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

If you are in flow mode and you change font size, the viewer remembers its place exactly. Whatever was at the top of the page, remains at the top of the page after the font size change.

I am beginning to see why calibre is making me crazy navigating. I find it to be erratic. I just tested the above statement. I am in flow mode (not pages), and have some text highlighted at top of screen. I went into viewer controls and changed font size several times, increased, decreased. It did as you said 3 times. the fourth time it took me back about 4 pages, ie I had to click toolbar> 'next page' 4 times to get the highlighted text back to top of screen. this may also explain my previously noted experience with 'something' causing font to shrink, with severe shift in location in book.

Another example: I have been trying to figure out what tapping on different places on the screen do. Now I know why I can't figure it out. Today I was noticing that (again flow mode) tapping on left side took me back a page (all according to 'position in book' I have set to show on bottom margin), tapping on right took me forward a page. 'ok that makes sense.' then suddenly, i find it doesn't matter where i tap, it takes me forward. Only way to go back is use toolbar 'previous page' or go to highlights and double click the highlight referred to previously. Other times I found myself back by many pages, though I can't remember what action preceded it. I can say it was a total surprise. (btw, toolbar>forward, or back buttons. what are they supposed to do?, I get no response from them)

Something is amiss here. I don't know if it is a bug in calibre, a bad install (I am on 4.9.13, but have had the same issues from 4.9.11), or some odd mismatch between this computer and calibre. Not having highlighting previously, I hadn't been using calibre to read, only convert to pdf. it was only after being informed about the beta that I started using it to read a few weeks ago. I'm sure, much to your chagrin.

edit: occurs to me that I could experiment with calibre on another computer, see if I get the same erratic responses. Let me know if you'd like me to do this.

[apricoto]

Originally Posted by Apache

I use pages and swiping works great. I found with scrolling if your finger is still moving when you lift your finger, the book will continue to scroll.
Apache

I thought of that, taking special, very special, more than with any other software, care not to have my finger be moving when lifting. Still happens sometimes, not all the time. Again, haven't experienced this with other software.

as noted in another post this isn't the only touch screen issue happening, so it remains to be seen what exactly is the cause.

[Apache]

I have also noticed that some people have more difficulty with touch screens than others. my wife for example has always had trouble with touch screens.
Apache

[apricoto]

more info about the strange page scrolling behavior
there is a small arrow left of text (arrow, or page number depending on setup and position of cursor). with touch screen, tapping outside (left) of arrow moves back in text. tapping between arrow and text move forward.

This is unexpected behavior to me. and to make it more complicated, if a mouse is attached, it doesn't matter where clicking happens, left or right of arrow, text moves back.

on right side of window, clicking and tapping, inside or outside of arrow all moves forward in text.

it is the same, in paged or continuous mode.

Is there a reason for this? Why doesn't tapping and clicking, anywhere on left of screen go back in text?

tapping on bottom of screen moves forward in text, but clicking with mouse does nothing. tapping on top of screen brings the controls, but clicking on top of screen does nothing. Is there a reason why clicking doesn't do same as tapping at top and bottom? Do people access the controls so often that the top third of screen is devoted to accessing it? Personally, I would prefer being able to tap or click on top of screen to move back in text. Hot keys and tool bar are available for accessing controls.

All in the spririt of good user experience.

[kovidgoyal]

What arror are you talking about? The only arrow is the arrow that shows when you hover over the margins with the mouse, and that isnt visible ona touch screen except during an actual tap. And tapping on the left third of the screen always turns the page back. And tapping on the bottom has no special behavior, if your bottom tap is on the margin nothing happens, if it is in the text then it turns the page left or right depending on if it is the left or right.

And why shouldmosue and tap have the same behavior? They are different input devices with different semantics. With a mouse ou can show the controls by right click, anywhere. Taps dont have a right click.

[apricoto]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

What arror are you talking about? The only arrow is the arrow that shows when you hover over the margins with the mouse, and that isnt visible ona touch screen except during an actual tap. And tapping on the left third of the screen always turns the page back. And tapping on the bottom has no special behavior, if your bottom tap is on the margin nothing happens, if it is in the text then it turns the page left or right depending on if it is the left or right.

And why should mouse and tap have the same behavior? They are different input devices with different semantics. With a mouse ou can show the controls by right click, anywhere. Taps dont have a right click.

yes I am referring to the little triangle. it appears whenever the cursor moves into the margin whether tap a is happening or not. I only mentioned it to help diffentiate the different areas of screen that inexplicably have different responses. On my device tapping on the bottom moves the text forward. tapping on left bottom screen left of arrow moves back, inside of arrow forward. But, this repeating what I have already mentioned a couple of times.

Why should the mouse and tap have the same behavior? Because we are simple human users, who aren't analyzing the technical underpinning of the input devices before we act. Every other use of a tap or mouse click in any other software that comes to my mind, is the same. It isn't different for a click or a tap depending on what part of screen one is on, because "the semantics are different"

You have been involved in development of Calibre from the beginning. It has morphed over time, as one expects. Many of the current users are likely programmers, and have also been on board for quite a while. The technical explanations may be correct, but this doesn't mean that they reflect a good user interface, one that anyone other than those intimately familiar with the development intricacies will find easy to use.

User comments about things that don't make sense to them, or that they have difficulties with, are clues about what operations could be made clearer, easier to use, less confusing. My impression is that you want to maintain Calibre for a restricted group, who take joy in the esoteric intricacies.

[kovidgoyal]

Originally Posted by apricoto

User comments about things that don't make sense to them, or that they have difficulties with, are clues about what operations could be made clearer, easier to use, less confusing. My impression is that you want to maintain Calibre for a restricted group, who take joy in the esoteric intricacies.

My impression is you fall into the common fallacy of finding something un-intuitive for yourself and therefore assuming it must be unintuitive objectively, for everybody. Good luck.

[compurandom]

Originally Posted by apricoto

Why should the mouse and tap have the same behavior? Because we are simple human users

Please don't suggest that touchscreen interface and mouse interface should be identical. That's what's wrong with far too many touchscreen interfaces!

There is not a 1:1 correspondence between touchcreen inputs and mouse inputs. There are things touch can do that mouse can't, and many things mouse can do that touch can't. If you make the interfaces identical, either one of them will be badly broken, or both will have many expected modern "intuitive" elements missing.

There is actually very little that is intuitive about a complex mouse or touchscreen interface. What you think is intuitive is just how you've been trained to use a mouse. I've seen far too many people try to use a mouse or touchscreen for the first time to believe anything there is intuitive. There is no intuitive there -- there's just a "common" interface that actually isn't even completely cross platform.

[Sirtel]

From what I've seen here in the 6 years I've been a MR member, most Calibre users are not programmers nor is Calibre meant to be used only by people with programming or coding skills. Calibre is a complex application with tons of options and while it would be nice to see a touchscreen-optimized version one day, I doubt that day will come anytime soon, if ever. And I wouldn't want it to, if it meant loss of functionality. Meanwhile I make do with a stylus whenever I want to use Calibre on my Surface without its keyboard attached.

[apricoto]

Originally Posted by compurandom

Please don't suggest that touchscreen interface and mouse interface should be identical. That's what's wrong with far too many touchscreen interfaces! ....

Are you indicating that this is the reason that in 2 of 4 quadrants in left margin, clicks and taps produce the same action, while the other 2 quadrants of right margin have clicks and taps producing results opposite from each other? Or, to say it differently: 4 quadrants of right margin area= 4 places to click and 4 places to tap. 4 clicks go back, 2 taps go back and 2 taps go forward. (actually, I am assuming 4 quadrants. I haven't tried a more granular experiment. perhaps there are more than 4 differentiated areas)

[kovidgoyal]

Originally Posted by apricoto

Are you indicating that this is the reason that in 2 of 4 quadrants in right margin, clicks and taps produce the same action, while the other 2 quadrants of right margin have clicks and taps producing results opposite from each other? Or, to say it differently: 4 quadrants of right margin area= 4 places to click and 4 places to tap. 4 clicks go back, 2 taps go back and 2 taps go forward. (actually, I am assuming 4 quadrants. I haven't tried a more granular experiment. perhaps there are more than 4 differentiated areas)

Nope tapping anywhere in the right margin has the same effect as clicking anywhere in the right margin, and that effect is to scroll forward in the book.

[apricoto]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

Nope tapping anywhere in the right margin has the same effect as clicking anywhere in the right margin, and that effect is to scroll forward in the book.

Huge whoops: right should have read 'left'. I have edited the comment to correct that error.