Unable to Book Ban,Library is defunded

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Apparently this library recently obtained $265,000 in a GoFundMe funds, but that won't "last long." Huh? This is a small library in a town of 8,000 to 10,000 people, how big does their operating budget need to be?

Overdrive licensing fees will kill that pretty quickly, assuming they have one.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by haertig

What boggles my mind is that your knowledge on this somehow excludes you from knowing how to speak to the less knowledgeable without offense.

Perhaps you've made the mistake of assuming it's my goal to never offend anyone??

[haertig]

Originally Posted by jhowell

The idea of us being in separate communities is strange to me.

"Communities". "Groups". "Fellowships". "Associations". To me, this word choice does not matter. They are synonyms in this context.

I have seen "LGBT lifestyle" and "LGBT community" both used very frequently in news articles on on TV. And recently. Maybe even last night. But I don't really know, because word choices within the normal spectrum are not something I pay great attention to. And the common-ness and frequency of these terms are why I chose those words. I thought they were common, standard terms, and not offensive.

I have now been told in no uncertain terms that "lifestyle" is bad. That's fine, I will strive not to say that again. From the posts subsequent to where I said that, I have deduced that "community" is acceptable, as many of the responses used that particular word. jhowell is the only one who has said anything against that word, but I take his mention as more of a general comment than an admonishment.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Perhaps you've made the mistake of assuming it's my goal to never offend anyone??

I don't think anyone would ever make that mistake.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Overdrive licensing fees will kill that pretty quickly, assuming they have one.

I looked up their annual budget, it's $245,000. The 10 year "millage" as (apparently) they call it in Michigan (instead of a bond) would be about two and a half million dollars (I'm guessing). Apparently the old "millage" will fund the library through the first quarter of 2023, then there is $325,000 in reserves and the additional $265,000 raised in a GoFundMe campaign. So, despite the hyperbolic headlines, this library is not in imminent danger of closing.

[retiredbiker]

Originally Posted by meeera

ETA: and defunding libraries is not only about book access. Libraries are often a refuge and information/resource hub for many many people in various sorts of straits and situations - everything from homelessness and family violence to seniors learning how to use tech to connect with the world.

In today's world, actual access to any locally banned book is pretty trivial with Amazon, if you have money. Or with shadow libraries like Library Genesis in existence; provided, of course that the person wanting access has the tech knowledge and hardware - another socially separating condition.

The real irreplaceable loss is the friendly physical space a library should be, as I know from a long life of loving visits to libraries.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by retiredbiker

In today's world, actual access to any locally banned book is pretty trivial with Amazon, if you have money. Or with shadow libraries like Library Genesis in existence; provided, of course that the person wanting access has the tech knowledge and hardware - another socially separating condition.

Interestingly, another shadow library (not Library Genesis) recently got their domain names seized after it went viral on TikTok; it seems this attracted the attention of the Authors Guild and then the FBI. Whoops.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by retiredbiker

In today's world, actual access to any locally banned book is pretty trivial with Amazon, if you have money.

Amazon China banned many books before they mostly closed in China, probably including most of the books about China that I might have wanted to read.

Here is an example of a book found in public libraries but banned from the U.S. Amazon, Amazon.com:

https://search.overdrive.com/media/3...y-became-sally

(I have not read the book, and Amazon may have reasons for banning it that I would find reasonable -- except that I find book banning, whether by governments, or large booksellers, totally unacceptable.)

I don't know what the future holds, but today's American public libraries buy and hold books from a wide variety of POV's -- often wider than Amazon.

Originally Posted by rcentros

So, despite the hyperbolic headlines, this library is not in imminent danger of closing.

I hope you are correct. A lot of U.S. public libraries are owned by the government, and a lot are fully independent despite accepting funds from, among other parties, the local government. I couldn't find on the Patmos Library web site how their board members are choosen, although they obviously are trying to stay open.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Apparently the old "millage" will fund the library through the first quarter of 2023, then there is $325,000 in reserves and the additional $265,000 raised in a GoFundMe campaign.

One GoFundMe has closed after raising $264,535. The November 11 update gives the reason for the decision to close at that amount.

There is another campaign still open for those who may want to contribute to keeping this library open.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I am going by the article that was linked in the first post. By refusing to remove a controversial book from circulation the librarians took a side on a social issue. I happen to agree with them, but it was still taking a side. If it had been a book promoting violent white nationalism or pedophilia I would have agreed with those who felt that it did not belong in a public library.

You could have written this whole post without having comparing being LGBTQIA+ to being a violent white nationalist or paedophile, yet you chose not to.

Try recasting it without including violent criminals. Like, say, "if it had been a book with Black characters". Or "if it had been a book about disabled identity".

[meeera]

Originally Posted by retiredbiker

In today's world, actual access to any locally banned book is pretty trivial with Amazon, if you have money.

Given that this particular repressive outrage was largely about the existence of access to books with LGBTQIA+ characters by marginalised young people, that's a pretty big "if", isn't it?

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by meeera

You could have written this whole post without having comparing being LGBTQIA+ to being a violent white nationalist or paedophile, yet you chose not to.

Try recasting it without including violent criminals. Like, say, "if it had been a book with Black characters". Or "if it had been a book about disabled identity".

I apologize. I was trying to come up with an extreme example. It was not my intent to make a comparison.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I apologize. I was trying to come up with an extreme example. It was not my intent to make a comparison.

If you are not aware of the long history of maliciously comparing queer people with child molesters, which is increasingly active and toxic at this time, and which your post reinforced, perhaps this is a conversation you could better learn from quietly.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by meeera

If you are not aware of the long history of maliciously comparing queer people with child molesters, which is increasingly active and toxic at this time, and which your post reinforced, perhaps this is a conversation you could better learn from quietly.

That comparison didn’t come to mind when I wrote that post, perhaps because I don’t associate with people that think that way.

At this point I feel that I am walking through a minefield so I will exit this thread.

[retiredbiker]

Originally Posted by meeera

Given that this particular repressive outrage was largely about the existence of access to books with LGBTQIA+ characters by marginalised young people, that's a pretty big "if", isn't it?

Yes. Making it another driver for the shadow libraries.