"Pirating ebooks is an offence against moral justice" says... GoodEreader!?

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by DNSB

See New words to live by: “Hypocrassy”. You're not a terrible speller, you're just fond of new vocabulary.

So, we have had monarchy, bureaucracy, democracy, technocracy, plutocracy, and now we have hypocrassracy.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

So, we have had monarchy, bureaucracy, democracy, technocracy, plutocracy, and now we have hypocrassracy.

Shouldn't that be a Hypocrassocracy"
Apache

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by Apache

Shouldn't that be a Hypocrassocracy"
Apache

Could be. I just regret the need for the word.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Gotta love a site that started out by charging money to access pirated books "forgetting" their roots

It happened on Mother's Day.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I believe that pirated books are bought by the pirates. They have to get a copy from somewhere, right? They're just shared irresponsibly.

This and competition from other forms of entertainment are what I believe I believe impacts book sales.

I don't think piracy impacts sales as much as publishers say it does. I have several ebook readers in my family and I'm the only one who knows what Calibre is or even knows what different formats are available. The rest use their devices the way the manufacturer hopes; they buy the books from whatever store the device is connected to and read on that device.

Can't argue with that or most of what barryem said and shalym etc.

My understanding and belief too, and I would add, that while I do not condone piracy or defend it, there are however, other factors regularly overlooked when ascertaining the damage piracy causes.

Sharing is no doubt a great promotional tool ... how can it not be. I am sure there would be people, who have read a pirated book, loved it and not only promoted it to others, but gone out and bought that book and others by the same author. How can you possibly factor that scenario into statistics?

Someone can possess a pirated ebook for instance. But does that mean the publisher and author have missed out? Only if that person was ever going to buy it in other circumstances, and won't because they have an illegal copy instead.

Personally, I am against DRM, and feel that people on the whole are worth trusting, and that the few bad eggs should mostly be ignored or pursued on an individual basis.

Books and ebooks have so much competition these days. So how can you even begin to work out the causes for any trends? Just not enough hours in a lifetime to pursue all that is currently available, entertainment wise, and more is continually coming on line.

Many see reading a book, as requiring effort. Often they prefer something that is easier, like a movie or TV series, that gives somewhat the same 'story' entertainment value. I am sure, that some of you at least, are aware that some authors now write in a similar vein to TV plots and pacing, and create shorter stories, in an effort to attract those being lured away from reading. Supposedly attention spans are much lower these days, with many wanting quick gratification.

I buy everything that I know want to have, providing I can afford it, so that I actually own it ... something that is very important to me, even if only conscience wise. I have lots of freebies that I am unsure about, that would probably never be given a chance otherwise. That is the way of the world now, and like DiapDealer has said, has got to be impacting sales. And one cannot ignore price is also a factor, especially for the ebook format. Not by all, but certainly for many.

[barryem]

I can't honestly say I'm against DRM. I wish it wasn't there but I realize that if DRM wasn't used publishers would be reluctant to make ebooks available and I want a good selection. So I recognize the need for DRM.

For owners of Calibre DRM is barely noticeable. For people who just download books they buy from Amazon or Kobo to their ereader it's not really noticeable at all. My guess is the people who are most troubled by it are the booksellers themselves. And their support staffs.

Barry

[Timboli]

True, but all built on the delusion we (as in majority) are not worth trusting.

Sad, disappointing and annoying is how I would describe it, and certainly not making the world a better one.

[MGlitch]

It’s worth pointing out that Baen and Tor don’t have DRM on their ebooks and haven’t for quite some time. Yet they haven’t seen a large enough change in sales to convince them to add it.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

It’s worth pointing out that Baen and Tor don’t have DRM on their ebooks and haven’t for quite some time. Yet they haven’t seen a large enough change in sales to convince them to add it.

Not to forget Baen's Free Library which while it may hurt sales of the first book in a series has made subsequent books sell better over the long run (many of the books in the Free Library are the first in a series). I've noticed quite a few independents who also make the first book in a series available free though there seems to be an on-going argument as to whether this is good for an author's overall sales considering the sheer number of freebies now available.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Not to forget Baen's Free Library which while it may hurt sales of the first book in a series has made subsequent books sell better over the long run (many of the books in the Free Library are the first in a series). I've noticed quite a few independents who also make the first book in a series available free though there seems to be an on-going argument as to whether this is good for an author's overall sales considering the sheer number of freebies now available.

The first book in the series is a regular thing now. Apple's book store has a number of first book in the series for free in both science fiction and fantasy. I suspect in other genres as well.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by barryem

I'm not really sure what "an offense against justice" means. Does anyone know?

The article says they're afraid piracy will lead to fewer novels being published. Piracy has been around a long time. I just googled and found there are estimates of 600,000 to 1,000,000 new novels every year. It doesn't seem that piracy is slowing things down.

I'm all for honesty in obtaining books. I'm just as much in favor of honesty in the other direction. I'd love to be able to read descriptions of books on the back cover or on Amazon and be able to believe them. In the approximately 65 years that I've been buying books I've never been able to do that and it's no better now than it was when I was a teen.

I have no problem with shutting down pirate sites. I have no problem with shutting down lying book sellers and publishers.

The article also mentions the high percentage of ebooks on devices that aren't purchased legally. A lot of us make backups of the books we've purchased legally and then read them on our devices. I wonder how that affects those counts. I find it pretty hard to believe that most people have a very high percentage of pirated books.

I don't have a Kindle at hand as I type but I do have a Nook handy. All of the books on it, 561 to be exact, were purchased from Amazon, legally. None were purchased from B&N. If B&N were able to see what is on it now they might very well think they're all pirated books.

On my Kindles I do it a little differently. I'll make a safe backup of a book and send it to my library at Amazon to download to my Kindles. I have a lot of Kindles and Kindle apps and I like to rotate through them. I never read on more than one Kindle and one phone but I'll often switch Kindles so this helps me avoid the limits of 6 devices. I have contacted Amazon about this and they have no problem with it. In fact the last time I contacted them about it the guy said a lot of the Kindle support people do similar things.

This is all legitimate but it would be easy to misinterpret if someone wasn't paying close attention.

Barry

The last thing in the world people want is justice. They mostly want to be excused.

What is moral justice as opposed to immoral justice.

I stole a book from the library when I was 11. I haven't stolen a book since. The book was The Memoirs of Cordell Hull. I obviously wasn't interested in reading the book. It was a dare.

I am amazed at how people can justify what they do. I arrested some people from a church for charity fraud. They were insulted. I pointed out they were lying. Their leader said, "When you're lying for Jesus it's call a heavenly deception." Right. Got it.

While I don't approve of stealing books, I also don't approve of how textbook publishers conduct their business. In one of my classes, the very expensive textbook had two pages of "worksheet." You had to complete the worksheet and tear out the pages. Xerox copies got an "F". Oh, did I mention the professor wrote the textbook? And, I got a 25% discount buying a textbook when I wasn't a student. The clerk said that according to their contract, only students had to pay full price.

People shouldn't lecture on morals. The should demonstrate moral behavior instead. And, prepare to be hated.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by patrickt

The last thing in the world people want is justice. They mostly want to be excused.

I'll take that as a biased assumption and cynical.
Personally what I care about most is justice.
If I were to judge others by how I am, I would imagine many would be the same.
However, I don't believe anyone knows really what all others want.
What I do know, is that people vary greatly for many reasons, so ridiculous to make blanket statements.

[JSWolf]

I do know of some who only pirate eBooks they cannot legally buy where they live. I know that's not legal, but morally they don't think it's wrong.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I do know of some who only pirate eBooks they cannot legally buy where they live. I know that's not legal, but morally they don't think it's wrong.

Yes. Because clearly; being able to purchase anything one wants (even when someone has made a decision to not sell it to you) is an inalienable right that cannot be infringed upon.

I get the "someone got my money" defense--I really do. But I fail to see how throwing money at something tilts the scale of morality/immorality. Do it or don't--but forget about trying to justify it in a legal/moral sense. It's not civil disobedience, and you're not being discriminated against. There's just some books you can't buy without breaking rules and/or engaging in deception. Own that, or don't do it. Those are your choices.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Yes. Because clearly; being able to purchase anything one wants (even when someone has made a decision to not sell it to you) is an inalienable right that cannot be infringed upon.

I get the "someone got my money" defense--I really do. But I fail to see how throwing money at something tilts the scale of morality/immorality. Do it or don't--but forget about trying to justify it in a legal/moral sense. It's not civil disobedience, and you're not being discriminated against. there's just some books you can't buy without breaking rules and/or engaging in deception. Own that, or don't do it. Those are your choices.

For example, take Arthurian Saga by Mary Stewart. There is an illegal version of this up on Smashwords. I've told them three times about it being illegal and yet it's still there. I would rather someone pirate these books then pay for the illegal version so whoever put it up doesn't get anything for it. Either way, it's a lot sale to whomever hold the rights. But one way a pirate gets money and in the other, nobody gets any money.

It's not a "someone got my money" defense. It's an "I would like to buy these books but cannot" defense.