George R.R. Martin Gives Quick Update on Winds of Winter Progress

[issybird]

Originally Posted by sun surfer

I have a bone to pick!

I would rather never have an ending than to have endure the agony of the television show's eighth (and seventh) season again. That was, I think, the biggest downfall of a tv show that I've ever seen.

I have to defer to your knowledge here; I gave up the show after the first season.

[quoteI don't think Martin lost the plot in the fourth and fifth books per se; the world and story aren't chaotic or disorganised, they've just grown so large and complex.[/quote]

Well, the sprawling and complex nature was authorial choice. Rather than manage the plot, he just kept making up new stuff.

Books 4 and 5 were really one book split in two, and I think they're on par with the quality of book 2.

One of the big problems with books 4 and 5 was the inclusion of detail that served no purpose at all. In the first book, it was possible to go between Winterfell and King’s Landing without hearing about every single minor event that happened on the way. The journey with Jaime and Brienne was excruciating.

wooden and plodding

Exactly!

[drofgnal]

We must remember, if and when he ever produces Winds of Winter, you then have to wait for A Dream of Spring. It's over a decade now for WoW, what wait will there be for a DoS? I think it's plain to see that series will never complete.

Another problem with books 4 and 5 they were written in a style where they were not serial in time but parallel with a whole cast of characters missing from 4 only to reappear in 5. Those books were a mess.

[rantanplan]

Originally Posted by drofgnal

We must remember, if and when he ever produces Winds of Winter, you then have to wait for A Dream of Spring. It's over a decade now for WoW, what wait will there be for a DoS? I think it's plain to see that series will never complete.

Hopefully Martin though about that with his copyrights so that someone else can finish his series if he dies first.

I have always disliked how the Tolkien society prohibits anyone from writing new middle-earth books so that we're stuck with half-finished manuscripts.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by rantanplan

I have always disliked how the Tolkien society prohibits anyone from writing new middle-earth books so that we're stuck with half-finished manuscripts.

They were notes. I can't believe he'd any intention of publishing most of what Christopher published or finishing most of those.

The Silmarillion might have been the only posthumous work that Tolkien would have wanted published. Certainly he had submitted a version of it, which no doubt frightened the Publisher. He was more into trying to recreate pre-Anglo-Saxon "British" literature and research generally than actually writing Fantasy. Hence his version of Beowulf and spending maybe decades inventing Elvish languages etc. My son bought all the other books Christopher published and I glanced at them. I've two editions each of the Hobbit, LOTR and The Silmarillion. First read LOTR in mid 1960s. I also have "Tree and Leaf" and other bits paperback.

The LOTR and the Hobbit (quite a different style of book) are really complete without the Silmarillion, which is almost equivalent to as if the books IN some fantasy story were written by a mysteriously alive person from that imaginary world. Almost a sort of meta-Fantasy?

[rantanplan]

Originally Posted by Quoth

The LOTR and the Hobbit (quite a different style of book) are really complete without the Silmarillion, which is almost equivalent to as if the books IN some fantasy story were written by a mysteriously alive person from that imaginary world. Almost a sort of meta-Fantasy?

Which is exactly what is written in the LoTR appendixes, that they were written as the Redbook of the Westmarshes and was then edited and retranslated several times in Gondor until Tolkien translated them into English.

[drofgnal]

Originally Posted by rantanplan

Hopefully Martin though about that with his copyrights so that someone else can finish his series if he dies first.

I have always disliked how the Tolkien society prohibits anyone from writing new middle-earth books so that we're stuck with half-finished manuscripts.

I thought I had read somewhere that Martin did not want anyone to finish his books if he didn't. If that's not the case, he should hand them over to another writer now.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by drofgnal

I thought I had read somewhere that Martin did not want anyone to finish his books if he didn't. If that's not the case, he should hand them over to another writer now.

It's up to him.

I wonder was it Walter Hooper with C.S. Lewis's papers and Christopher with JRR Tolkien's papers that prompted Terry Pratchett to put destruction of his hard drive in his will? Though Lewis had wanted his stuff burnt.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by drofgnal

I thought I had read somewhere that Martin did not want anyone to finish his books if he didn't. If that's not the case, he should hand them over to another writer now.

Generally, I’m opposed to another writer picking up where one left off and even more so when the voice is unique. I’d far rather have no closure than inferior closure. That kind of thing always smacks mostly of a cash grab to me.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by issybird

Generally, I’m opposed to another writer picking up where one left off and even more so when the voice is unique. I’d far rather have no closure than inferior closure. That kind of thing always smacks mostly of a cash grab to me.

Depends. Robert Jordan wanted another author to finish the Wheel of Time according to his notes (which he prepared beforehand) in the case he succumbed to his illness before completing the series, as indeed happened. So Sanderson finishing the WoT was the fulfillment of the author's wish.

But I agree that's very rare.

[DiapDealer]

I'd need to see some pretty compelling evidence that a new book published after its author's death was nearly completed before their demise before I'd buy/read it. I don't mind if it just needs a bit of editing or here or there, but I'm not interested anything someone else authored for someone who died.

Whether the author sanctioned it themselves before they died is of no consequence to me.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I'd need to see some pretty compelling evidence that a new book published after its author's death was nearly completed before their demise before I'd buy/read it. I don't mind if it just needs a bit of editing or here or there, but I'm not interested anything someone else authored for someone who died.

Whether the author sanctioned it themselves before they died is of no consequence to me.

I'm willing to read the sequels by another author when both of the following conditions are met:

1. The series was not completed by the original author and the new author finished it
2. It was the original author's wish another would finish the series and they left notes for this purpose

If it's just writing more books because the earlier books were popular, then I'm not interested.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I'm willing to read the sequels by another author when both of the following conditions are met:

1. The series was not completed by the original author and the new author finished it
2. It was the original author's wish another would finish the series and they left notes for this purpose

If it's just writing more books because the earlier books were popular, then I'm not interested.

I made the mistake of buying and reading a 'sequel' to the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo trilogy. It was missing the spark that made the books a delight.

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I made the mistake of buying and reading a 'sequel' to the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo trilogy. It was missing the spark that made the books a delight.

I didn't like the sequel either. IMHO, the estate of Stieg Larsson picked the wrong writer. Before writing the sequel, David Lagercrantz's only claim to fame was ghostwriting the biography of a soccer player largely unknown outside of Sweden.
The sequel would have been much better, if they had picked another established Nordic thriller writer, e.g., Håkan Nesser, Jo Nesbø, Arnaldur Indriðason or Jussi Adler-Olsen.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I made the mistake of buying and reading a 'sequel' to the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo trilogy. It was missing the spark that made the books a delight.

Well, according to Wikipedia, Lagercrantz had no access to Larsson's notes and outlines. Also it was not Larsson's expressed wish for another to finish his work (of course he died rather unexpectedly).

I haven't read either original books or Lagercrantz's sequels. I might read the original trilogy one day, but probably not the sequels.

[drofgnal]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Depends. Robert Jordan wanted another author to finish the Wheel of Time according to his notes (which he prepared beforehand) in the case he succumbed to his illness before completing the series, as indeed happened. So Sanderson finishing the WoT was the fulfillment of the author's wish.

But I agree that's very rare.

Most reviews of Sanderson's completion were positive after Jordan sort of lost his way in later books. In that case I guess it was a good thing. I only read the first one and didn't pick up the other 14....