03-31-2020, 03:57 PM | #1 | ||
the rook, bossing Never.
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Archive.org, Google and Piracy
I'd noticed that Archive.org has a lot of Google scanned PDFs and that Google assumes anything is Orphaned and fair game for them, unless told otherwise. Also Google scans complete copyright works to feed their search.
Now this Quote:
https://nwu.org/book-division/cdl/faq/ http://blog.archive.org/2020/03/30/i...gency-library/ I appreciate the service that Archive.org provides in "saving" copies of vanished websites. AKA "Wayback Machine". They seem too much inclined to Google's attitude to scanning copyright works and not just archiving dead websites, but providing copies of copyright works, beyond webpages, with no remuneration to those selling them. Also from time to time a book, comic, song, video or program might be distributed "free of charge" by the copyright holder or publisher. That doesn't put it in the Public Domain, nor does it give ANYONE the right to redistribute it. No author or publisher should have to search to opt out of anything. In a related issue: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/0...undup_2902320/ Quote:
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03-31-2020, 04:03 PM | #2 |
Wizard
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This will likely fan the flames of the what's fair debate
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/0...gency_library/ I have already seen reports that copyright owners are outraged.... |
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03-31-2020, 04:21 PM | #3 | |
the rook, bossing Never.
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I noticed the "open library" at Archive , org some time ago and wondered how it was run. I hadn't realised it was just blatant copyright violation, far beyond what Google was allowed, which actually was bought. Why does Google need to scan an entire copyright work to produce a web snippet? I think we can all work out why. Also the "snippet" is disingenuous as tests show that Google has OCRed entire copyright text and will respond to ANY unique text in the book. The results often come higher than sellers of the book. We stopped selling via Google Books/Playstore because we were unhappy about how Google did the preview (with Amazon and Smashwords it's a percentage from the start). I'm just wondering is there some connection between Google and the Internet Archive? |
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03-31-2020, 06:33 PM | #4 |
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There is some history there. Google was involved in a project where they were scanning in all works at various libraries. The author's guide got outraged and sued, and it ended up in court. If I remember correctly, the outcome was that Google scanning was considered fair use, but they couldn't make the complete work available without the author's consent.
This wiki page gives a more or less reasonable summary of what happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Books |
03-31-2020, 08:28 PM | #5 | |
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The google case was because google was creating a searchable database of books to provide snippets and links to legal sources of the full book.
The Author's sued and they ended up with a settlement that was rejected by the judge because the AG was "negotiating" on behalf of unknown/non-consenting writers. A decade later, after a bunch of appeals and rulings that stripped out extraneous stuff including the whole orphan works mess , the case came back to basics: the database of scanned books that google wasn't publishing, just quoting snippets. And that was ruled fair use. The Internet archive is working off a different case and stretching it further than Ralph Dibny can reach. Long trail of articles at tbe Digital Reader Blog among other places: https://the-digital-reader.com/2018/...ecides-piracy/ Quote:
https://the-digital-reader.com/2018/...-dmca-notices/ https://the-digital-reader.com/2019/...-open-library/ https://the-digital-reader.com/2020/...g-their-books/ The unconstested fact is they lend out copyrighted books without agreement by the owners of the copyright. The've floated a variety of excuses over time but since they are small and there is no $$$$ involved, they get a lot of finger pointing but no lawsuits. Which cost money to pursue. Last edited by fjtorres; 03-31-2020 at 08:36 PM. |
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03-31-2020, 08:48 PM | #6 |
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As I understand it the Open Library is basing it's actions on a legal precedent that allows them to lend a single scan at a time of any book they own in paper form. It's been a while since I read it so I don't recall the exact details but they are basing what they're doing on existing law.
There are groups that are protesting and there are some lawsuits to determine if what they're doing really fits that law. Those cases are pending and until they're decided it's simply wrong to call their actions piracy. The law that they're basing it on does exist. Now with the Corona virus they've taken an additional step of lending unlimited copies of those books. My guess is that won't be found to be legal but at the same time we're in the kind of situation that seems to justify it and my guess, and it's only that, is that they've decided they're willing to take a hit if that's found to be unlawful, which it probably will be. I applaud their courage in doing this. During non-Corona virus times Archive.org is NOT a pirate site. They're a legitimate organization that does good work. Maybe that argument is different now. I'm not a lawyer so I don't really know. But the courts will decide that and I think we should avoid name calling till they do. Barry |
03-31-2020, 09:01 PM | #7 |
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I've been using archive.org for (maybe) two decades. Using TheWayBackMAchine (which is awesome) and downloading bootlegged music concerts. More recently I saw some Tarkovsky movies on the site - they were Criterion collection if I remember correctly - and at that time I did wonder about the situation of copyright (previously I'd always assumed they were doing things by the book).
The early days of my using that resource predated Google mass-scanning project. Perhaps Google's activity stretched the bounds of what was "acceptable". But what's the issue at hand right now? They've made their library open access? And... the library contains books that have somehow been scoured from the internet, judging that their free-access somewhere online means they're effectively free everywhere (in much the same way that non copy-writed content is. I haven't been following this issue. What's the "why"? In the future, they have can position themselves to replace publishing houses? |
03-31-2020, 09:07 PM | #8 | |
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Here’s their defense:
https://blog.archive.org/2020/03/30/...gency-library/ Quote:
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03-31-2020, 10:38 PM | #9 | |
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Internet Archive’s National Emergency Library Harms Authors
The Authors Guild is definitely not pleased with this new development. Piracy is still piracy no matter how the Internet Archive cloaks it. Quote:
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04-01-2020, 02:34 AM | #10 |
Wizard
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a poll would be interesting but I have no idea how to create one.
I am with the Internet Archive on this: a temp fix to help with lockdowns trumps copyright. ( as most libraries and bookstores have been force-closed anyway) "Right now, today, there are 650 million books that tax-paying citizens have paid to access that are sitting on shelves in closed libraries, inaccessible to them. And that’s just in public libraries." but TBF, I don't write books for a living. |
04-01-2020, 02:44 AM | #11 |
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04-01-2020, 03:59 AM | #12 | |
the rook, bossing Never.
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There are PLENTY of Public Domain books. This is a cynical attempt to use the crisis to attack copyright. Yes, Copyright terms have got too long. Yes, publishers are failing in not using POD for paper and better supporting ebooks. Yes, DRM is evil. The Internet Archive has no right (moral or legal) to ignore copyright (and some of these titles are in Print). A pandemic doesn't give anyone the right to make such decisions. They are not paying royalties nor purchasing licences or copies. Even a government hasn't the right to abrogate copyright of living authors, though they do have the right to invalidate spurious patents and trademarks, even then it's normal to have a judicial process. We are not in some post apocalyptic setting where authors and publishers no longer have rights. They are NOW offering to take down ANY title if an author or publisher complains, as a reaction to the criticism. That's not good enough. They should take down ALL works in copyright and only put up works where the rights holder agrees. What sort of arrogance is it that THEY should decide what Intellectual Property is given away free. This isn't a library. |
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04-01-2020, 04:05 AM | #13 | |
the rook, bossing Never.
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That's why we elect governments and have courts and legal systems in most countries. Even in Switzerland which has referendums the government can cancel the result on the grounds that it's immoral, stupid, self harm to country, illegal etc. Copyright needs reformed. DRM needs to be abolished and be illegal. Destroying copyright entirely would certainly win a poll, but how then do creative people get paid? |
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04-01-2020, 04:17 AM | #14 | |
the rook, bossing Never.
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They are now using the excuse of the Pandemic to publicize what they where already doing, a PDF lending system for copyright and in print titles without paying a cent in royalties or purchasing a library licence. Also the fact that someone else is offering a pirated copy certainly doesn't excuse anyone else doing it. This goes far beyond their brilliant service of archiving and preserving websites. This is a deliberate and long planned attack on copyright existing at all. I absolutely abhor that big US corporations have got copyright extended and deployed DRM to remove fair use and control customers. Neither addresses piracy. Copyright terms should be shorter, not increased periodically. Between 25 and 50 years after author's life with return of all rights to Author or author's estate if the publisher has sold no copies in 10 years. DRM should be illegal. |
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04-01-2020, 04:31 AM | #15 | |
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
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