07-27-2018, 04:59 PM | #16 | |
Wizard
Posts: 4,742
Karma: 246906703
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Device: Oasis 3, Oasis 2, PW3, PW1, KT
|
Quote:
|
|
07-27-2018, 05:26 PM | #17 | |
Bibliophagist
Posts: 35,464
Karma: 145525534
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Sage, Forma, Clara HD, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos
|
Quote:
|
|
Advert | |
|
07-27-2018, 05:56 PM | #18 | |
Wizard
Posts: 4,742
Karma: 246906703
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Device: Oasis 3, Oasis 2, PW3, PW1, KT
|
Quote:
|
|
07-27-2018, 06:03 PM | #19 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
|
kj
Quote:
Anybody can claim anything but proving it is a wee bit harder. At most they might be able to show correlation but causation? That *their* lost income was due solely to the scammers? Doubt it. Simple order of magnitude analysis suggests not. First, the way KU funding works any scammer is going to hit Amazon, not authors. Second, Amazon sets the payout pool after the fact, based on total recorded page reads. So any "scam page reads" are *added* to the legit page reads and then Amazon sets the pool size to keep the per page payout within their desired range. They will grow tbe expected pool size if the payout falls below estimates. So, more page reads = bigger payout. Any scam pages simply trigger a bigger payout. And if the growth is too big, alarms will trip and Amazon will look at where *their* money is going. Nate the great pointed this out months ago: https://the-digital-reader.com/2016/...per-page-scam/ Courtesy of Nate's site, here's how the payouts roll: Here's a list of the monthly funding pools. It does not include the bonuses paid out each month. July 2014: $2.5 million (Kindle Unlimited launches early in the month) August 2014: $4.7 million September 2014: $5 million October 2014: $5.5 million November 2014: $6.5 million December 2014: $7.25 million January 2015 - $8.5 million February 2015: $8 million March 2015: $9.3 million April 2015: $9.8 million May 2015: $10.8 million June 2015: $11.3 million July 2015: $11.5 million August 2015: $11.8 million September 2015: $12 million October 2015: $12.4 million November 2015: $12.7 million December 2015: $13.5 million January 2016: $15 million February 2016: $14 million March 2016: $14.9 million April 2016: $14.9 million May 2016: $15.3 million June 2016: $15.4 million July 2016: $15.5 million August 2016: $15.8 million September 2016: $15.9 million October 2016: $16.2 million November 2016: $16.3 million December 2016: $16.8 million January 2017: : $17.8 million February 2017: : $16.8 million March 2017: $17.7 million April 2017: $17.8 million May 2017 :$17.9 million June 2017: $18 million July 2017: $19 million August 2017: $19.4 million September 2017: $19.5 million October 2017: $19.7 million November 2017: $19.8 million December 2017: $19.9 million January 2018: $20.9 million February 2018: $20 million March 2018: $21 million April 2018: $21.2 million May 2018: $22.5 million Notice the steady growth *and* seasonality. Every spring for several years we hear plaints that KU payouts shrank in Feb and March... ...from big boosts in December and January. Growth resumes in April. Again, KU has been around long enough to stabilize. Massive scamming would be immediately noticed by Amazon as a massive surge in page reads which is something that has never happened. Now, has somebody scammed their way to thousands or tens of thousands of dollars? Almost certainly. And been flagged and banned and worse. https://the-digital-reader.com/2018/...d-from-amazon/ But in a business paying out tens of millions a month, hundreds of millions a year, any scamming sneaking by would amount to fractions of a percent in losses to *Amazon*. Even if the scammed money were coming out of a fixed pool instead of an expanding pool, the hypothetical losses would be spread across tens of thousands of authors. (Remember: 1.5 million titles!) Those mythical losses would come to a few bucks per author. (Run the numbers! At half a cent per page, how many scam pages would be needed to generate even 1%/$3M? Think Amazon wouldn't notice the spike hitting their bottom line?) So an author would have to have a pretty lean KU reader base to be noticeably impacted. Which they wouldn't be because the scammers are ripping off Amazon, not authors. KU is a strange beast poorly understood. And one oft forgotten thing is that it is recency driven. A major portion of reads go to recent uploads. Which is why the most successful KU authors with deep backlists don't dump all their books at once and instead release them steadily as a monthly stream to maintain a presence in the new releases listings. Because once they fall out of those listings their reads will take a big hit. This is well documented. But not all authors track things like seasonality or recency effects. Finally, remember that on the internet you're most likely hearing from the squeaky wheels, the disgruntled. The happily gruntled prefer to keep quiet and count their loot in private. (Which is why Author Earnings Data Guy got into such a crapstorm when he started publicly naming the six and seven figure annual income indie ebook authors. He had to backtrack within hours. Torches and pitchforks. There is such a thing as too much transparency.) Last edited by fjtorres; 07-27-2018 at 06:11 PM. |
|
07-27-2018, 06:31 PM | #20 | |
Bibliophagist
Posts: 35,464
Karma: 145525534
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Sage, Forma, Clara HD, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos
|
Quote:
Scammers Break The Kindle Store Kindle Unlimited Book Stuffing Scam Earns Millions and Amazon Isn't Stopping It Kindle Unlimited snafu: scammers, suspended accounts, and page read reductions etc. It sounds as if Amazon has the usual problem of being reactive not proactive. As for the book stuffers? As mentioned in an earlier post, a series my wife checked out turned out be be 3 80-89 page novellas and a 135 page novel. Sadly the ebooks that novellas were in ran to 450-800 pages while the novel had ~110 pages with the other 25 consisting of advertising for other books by the author and friends plus a 2 page acknowledgment that read like an Oscar speech (I want to thank—by name—everyone who has been within a metre of me during my life). She did complain to Amazon and received a "nice" form letter response. When I wrote the previous message in this thread mentioning that series, it was still on Amazon and shows as KU available. Amazon -- with the blinding speed of a giant tortoise... Last edited by DNSB; 07-27-2018 at 06:39 PM. |
|
Advert | |
|
07-28-2018, 09:59 AM | #21 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
|
Quote:
All retailers have to wait for the shoplifter to steal from them before calling the cops. The issue isn't whether there is some scamming. It is whether it amounts to anything significant. A few readers are annoyed, they complain, Amazon looks into it and bans the scammer. They might give the annoyed reader a free month. All businesses get scammed. It's part of the cost of doing business. Have you heard of the Walmart that sold a returned iPad box that actually had a brick inside? Every store has their issues. Nobody knows for sure how much net Amazon makes from KU but it's a safe bet that if they're paying out $250-300M a year they are netting at least 5% of that and possibly as much as 30%. They are reactive because a few hundred thousand out of *their* pockets is nothing they sweat. They see no need to go looking for trouble; trouble will find them on its own. Big businesses are really, really different. If they don't sweat their own losses why should we? Some idealistic vision of a world without thieves? Last edited by fjtorres; 07-28-2018 at 10:02 AM. |
|
07-28-2018, 11:25 AM | #22 |
Readaholic
Posts: 5,140
Karma: 90000000
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: South Georgia
Device: Surface Pro 6 / Galaxy Tab A 8"
|
Employees are supposed to open the boxes and make sure everything is inside and in new condition. Of course if employees are busy or don't care they skip that part. A cousin of mine used to brag about buying computer parts from Wal Mart and returning the box with his used part in it.
Apache |
07-28-2018, 03:15 PM | #23 | |
Bibliophagist
Posts: 35,464
Karma: 145525534
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Sage, Forma, Clara HD, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos
|
Quote:
I would suspect that Amazon does have people who do the type of work for KU and I suspect many scammers work hard to stay below their horizon. Then of course, we have prawning which has hit quite a few non-scammer authors. See Dangers for Prawny Authors for a bit more information. |
|
07-28-2018, 03:57 PM | #24 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,195
Karma: 70314280
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2
|
Quote:
The flip side is that both Google and Amazon have the issue that they are monetizing by showing customers things based on what they were paid to show rather than based on what matches the customers' needs. |
|
07-28-2018, 03:58 PM | #25 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,172
Karma: 63764653
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
|
Quote:
|
|
07-28-2018, 05:52 PM | #26 |
Readaholic
Posts: 5,140
Karma: 90000000
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: South Georgia
Device: Surface Pro 6 / Galaxy Tab A 8"
|
In the US you can not be charged with shoplifting unless you walk out the doors without paying. You may know the customer is planning on stealing something, but you can not stop them in the store and accuse them of stealing store merchandise.
Apache |
07-28-2018, 06:17 PM | #27 | |
Bibliophagist
Posts: 35,464
Karma: 145525534
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Sage, Forma, Clara HD, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos
|
Quote:
Edit: While what I wrote above is generally applied in Canada, there have been cases where the perpetrator was heading towards an exit and away from the cashiers and was stopped by store security. This behaviour was considered sufficient to establish that they were not planning to pay for whatever they have in their hand or concealed on their person. To quote section 494 of the Canadian Criminal Code: Spoiler:
That aside, one friend of mine used to have a nasty hobby. if the alarm went off as he was exiting a store, he would starting running and duck around the nearest corner. This was a real hoot to him until one day, a store staff member who had been a university level sprinter caught him and tackled him to the ground causing some nasty injuries to both parties (full contact sports are not meant to be played on concrete? ). He attempted to sue for compensation for his injuries but lost. Basically the court ruled that his running would be considered as sufficient evidence under section 494(2) as the store staff were acting as representatives of the store owner in their actions and no evidence of excessive force was given. Regards, David Last edited by DNSB; 07-28-2018 at 08:44 PM. |
|
07-29-2018, 04:06 AM | #28 |
Wizard
Posts: 4,742
Karma: 246906703
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Device: Oasis 3, Oasis 2, PW3, PW1, KT
|
You keep repeating this over and over as a mantra. And yet, the recommendation are in essence advertisements. It is a big sign that says: "Here, we have these for sale, they might interest you since you bought and looked at similiar items." If you fail to understand recommendations from a store that wants to sell things as advertisements, then I don't know which world you live in.
|
07-29-2018, 09:07 AM | #29 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,195
Karma: 70314280
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2
|
Quote:
https://www.searchenginejournal.com/...claims/135824/ Yes, I do understand that recommendations are Amazon trying to sell me something, but that's not what I'm talking about. The original idea of recommendations was Amazon saying "Hey you bought a new book by John Ringo, you might like this book by David Weber". That was fine. I understand that recommendations aren't perfect. The issue is that Amazon shifted from making recommendations based on what you buy, to making recommendations based on who is paying them for priority in placement. Rather than recommend David Weber, they started recommending various indie authors because they make more money on placement service with those authors. My current recommended authors are Christopher Nutall, Lauerence Dahners, Terry Mixon, Evan Currie, Issac Hooke, Peter Grant and Jan Allan. Hum, what do all those authors have in common? Well, it's certainly not that they are authors that I have heard of, or am likely interested in! Rather, they are all indie authors, who might be paying Amazon to pimp them. Amazon's recommendations tend to be better in more obscure categories such as ancient history. I assume that they don't sell placement to as many authors in that category. Try googling recommendation ad. |
|
07-29-2018, 10:12 AM | #30 |
Wizard
Posts: 4,742
Karma: 246906703
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Device: Oasis 3, Oasis 2, PW3, PW1, KT
|
@pwalker8: I do not have the problem with first page Google showing exclusively sponsored ads. If I don't find what I need on first page, I will adjust my search words more specific until I do. Remember ask.com? You could ask sentences. Google can do that too now. Appears to give better results sometimes.
Amazon showing too many Indies for your taste? Well, that is the advantage Amazon has over other stores with much more limited selection of books. Maybe the new Apple Books store would align better as a discovery tool for you. By the way, I always chuckle when after a marathon search on Google and Amazon ads pop up about it everywhere. Say, I am researching new lenses for my camera. For the next week or so I see ads left and right about lenses. And I hear about it too from my wife: "You been looking up lenses." "How did you know? *insert big grin*. Last edited by DuckieTigger; 07-29-2018 at 10:15 AM. |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
If you liked the official Oasis2 cover design concept | Avwriter | Amazon Kindle | 10 | 04-19-2018 12:35 PM |
Kindle Nicknaming Scheme, Using Kindle with Calibre, and Hacking the Kindle | Klif | Amazon Kindle | 11 | 09-12-2012 05:11 PM |
$0.01 in Kindle Store: Interactive Sudoku for Kindle 2 and Kindle DX - Volume 1 | Xia | Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) | 2 | 11-07-2009 10:06 AM |