Oasis x Voyage

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Shinytop

By the way, the discussion of the size of the internal battery MAY have an appreciable effect on the life of the battery but most of us are capable of reading without the cover and simply place it back in the cover when not reading. So for those with simple adaptive skills the combined battery power is the main consideration, not just the internal battery. Every time you buy a new phone you change some habits. Why not with a reader?

If my calculation is correct the cover really has nothing to do with it. The cover is effectively just another way to charge the Oasis.

That said, I can appreciate your argument about the increased comfort making it worthwhile. I've been reading more and more with my original Kobo Aura for just that reason. It feels good in my hand. I much prefer the feature selection and better screen of my Kindles but the Aura is okay and it's a lot more comfortable to hold.

Barry

[barryem]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What I don't get is how many here don't agree that the battery in the oasis won't last nearly as long as the Voyage.

I'm no engineer and batteries are complicated devices so my calculation could be wrong. I don't think it is and that's why I don't have an Oasis, which I'd really like to have if it weren't for that issue.

But I'm not so sure I'm right that I have to wonder about those who disagree. There's not a lot of certainty here and a lot of us have a lot of faith in Amazon.

Barry

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by barryem

I'm no engineer and batteries are complicated devices so my calculation could be wrong. I don't think it is and that's why I don't have an Oasis, which I'd really like to have if it weren't for that issue.

But I'm not so sure I'm right that I have to wonder about those who disagree. There's not a lot of certainty here and a lot of us have a lot of faith in Amazon.

Barry

My way of looking at it is that the Voyage and the Oasis use good quality batteries. That being equal, the Oasis battery is 1/6th the size of the Voyage battery. That means the Oasis will need to be charged 6 times more than the Voyage. We know that these batteries can take only so many charges before we notice they don't hold a charge all that well. The Oasis will show this much sooner than the Voyage.

If I am wrong, someone please explain why. I don't think I am, but if I am, I'd like to know why.

[Shinytop]

I will not engage in that discussion but I will continue to say the comfort of the Oasis is worth it even if I have to replace it every two years. I do not expect to that soon but there you are.

[Shinytop]

Regarding battery size, I think it possibly misleads prospective buyers to think they will have to plug it in 6 times more often than the Voyage. That is not true. So the total battery capacity of reader and case is less misleading for those comparing the Voyage and Oasis for purchase.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Shinytop

Regarding battery size, I think it possibly misleads prospective buyers to think they will have to plug it in 6 times more often than the Voyage. That is not true. So the total battery capacity of reader and case is less misleading for those comparing the Voyage and Oasis for purchase.

Even if the Oasis battery lasts longer than 1/6th the time of the Voyage battery, it will not last more than 1/2 the time. I think it would most likely be 1/3rd the time.

[Shinytop]

Your thinking it so does not make it so. It also does not justify misleading comments about the battery size. As long as the Oasis has been out many should have begun to notice a lessening the battery life. I have not experienced it or read about it from somebody's experience, not what somebody thinks.

[Kolenka]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

My way of looking at it is that the Voyage and the Oasis use good quality batteries. That being equal, the Oasis battery is 1/6th the size of the Voyage battery. That means the Oasis will need to be charged 6 times more than the Voyage. We know that these batteries can take only so many charges before we notice they don't hold a charge all that well. The Oasis will show this much sooner than the Voyage.

If I am wrong, someone please explain why. I don't think I am, but if I am, I'd like to know why.

So, there's two things at play here:
1) The definition of a cycle is somewhat important, and it can be used to demonstrate that depending on how much you read, even the tiny battery can be reliable into the future.
2) The cover takes priority over the internal battery. Plug in the cover, and the internal battery stops having power drawn from it.

So let's start with #1. Draining a battery to 50% and recharging it isn't a cycle. Rather it's much closer to half a cycle. Close enough that you can call draining a battery to 50%, and recharging it twice a single cycle. So you aren't wearing it out faster. And because LiIon/LiPoly chemistries don't like deep discharges, you have some control over how many cycles the battery lasts by simply not draining it too much.

Let's assume the internal battery lasts 6 hours of reading, and you read 30 minutes a night. That means you'd cycle the battery once every 12 days. If we also assume 300 cycles (the low end of LiPoly), then we are looking on the order of about 9.8 years. So this is if you never use the cover. Yes, the Voyage's battery will last longer since you won't be cycling every 12 days in this scenario. But the general thing I'm pointing out is that for someone with a lighter volume of consistent reading will get quite a bit of use out of just the internal battery. Enough that even if you read for 2 hours a day, every day, without fail, you are still looking at 2.5 years before things get wonky. Which isn't great, but isn't terrible for such a small battery.

However, #2 puts a huge wrinkle in that. Since the combined battery has more capacity than the Voyage's internal battery, the more time you read with the cover on, the more it starts to skew more and more in favor of the Oasis. If you spend 50% of your reading time with the cover connected, you are doubling the life-span of the internal battery. 75%, and you quadruple the lifespan. If you leave the cover on all the time, then the internal battery is really only going through the small trickle conditioning that the charging circuits put it though as if it were always plugged in.

So, here's the thing, you are kinda right that the internal will wear down faster, but that's assuming you are in the realm of spending <50% of your reading time with the cover on, and reading at such a clip that you devour books in the way that a particular Sesame Street character devours cookies.

That said, these numbers also assume a fairly low number of charge cycles on LiPoly chemistry. Apple rates their LiPoly batteries closer to 1000 cycles. Without knowing exactly where Amazon's batteries land, I chose the worst case scenario. Even with these worst case scenarios, the battery lifespan isn't really out of line for electronics of this kind. Probably why Amazon was willing to design it this way.

All that said, I probably would have stuck with a Voyage if it wasn't for the ergonomics and asymmetric bezel on the Oasis making for a nicer one handed grip. Sadly, the bezel on the Voyage is about half the width of my thumb, and has always been a bit of a pain since it is flush with the touch screen.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

...

Let's assume the internal battery lasts 6 hours of reading, and you read 30 minutes a night. That means you'd cycle the battery once every 12 days. If we also assume 300 cycles (the low end of LiPoly), then we are looking on the order of about 9.8 years. So this is if you never use the cover. Yes, the Voyage's battery will last longer since you won't be cycling every 12 days in this scenario. But the general thing I'm pointing out is that for someone with a lighter volume of consistent reading will get quite a bit of use out of just the internal battery. Enough that even if you read for 2 hours a day, every day, without fail, you are still looking at 2.5 years before things get wonky. Which isn't great, but isn't terrible for such a small battery.

...

Thank you for the numbers. The only thing I'll add is that after those three hundred cycles, the battery capacity has gone from 6 hours to 5.1 hours.

And if you read 5 hours a day:

After 1 year: 332 cycles, 5 hours of capacity left
After 2 years: 749 cycles, 3.8 hours of capacity left
After 3 years: 1407 cycles, 1.8 hours of capacity left

P.S. when I've mentioned cycles in my posts, I've been refering to "full" charge cycles, i.e. 1 X 100%, or 2 * 50%, or 3 * 33%, ...

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Shinytop

Your thinking it so does not make it so. It also does not justify misleading comments about the battery size. As long as the Oasis has been out many should have begun to notice a lessening the battery life. I have not experienced it or read about it from somebody's experience, not what somebody thinks.

That's because they use the case to keep the Oasis topped up. And for those that read without the case, when they finish reading, they put it back in the case to top up the battery.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Shinytop

Your thinking it so does not make it so. It also does not justify misleading comments about the battery size. As long as the Oasis has been out many should have begun to notice a lessening the battery life. I have not experienced it or read about it from somebody's experience, not what somebody thinks.

I don't think anyone is trying to mislead anyone here. We're discussing what we think might be the truth about the Oasis. None of us claim to have facts or the real answer.

Also the issue isn't how often do you have to plug the device in. If you keep the cover on it I think the Oasis will have to be charged less often than the Voyage. The problem is that plugged in or not, the Voyage is being charged by the cover and that may mean the battery's useful lifetime may be shorter.

This isn't really about whether someone should buy an Oasis. Those who have them seem to like them and that settles that. I worry about the battery so I don't have one. That's my answer for me. I think I'd like the form factor so I'm kind of sad about that.

A number of people who have read the concern about battery life and agreed with it have still gone on to buy an Oasis because they want that form factor. I don't see how anyone can have a problem with that.

As for people noticing reduced battery life I don't think it's been out long enough for that to happen. In another year or two we'll know more.

Barry

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

2) The cover takes priority over the internal battery. Plug in the cover, and the internal battery stops having power drawn from it.

From everything I've read that's not the case. While reading with the cover on there are meters showing both the battery level in the Oasis and in the cover. The battery in the Oasis depletes while reading with the cover on and when it gets to a certain point the cover charges the battery.

I've never seen any of this or even seen an Oasis. I've learned about this from reading Oasis owners discussions in forums like this one.

Barry

[Atunah]

Although I don't read with the cover on, so I can't speak for long term watching of battery that way, I just put it in while the Oasis had 92% battery. I had just started to read. And the cover has 55%. It right away says kindle (charging from cover). And as I am typing this, it went from 92 to 93. For me the kindle stops around 94 with charging. It never goes to 100 while in the cover for me. I looked at that several times. It does of course go to 100 while both are charged together.

From what I can tell with my limited in cover checking, once its at 94% the kindle will stop charging from cover and then drop down to a certain percentage somewhere in the 80's. But when it starts charging from the cover again, I do not know since I always read outside of the cover.

I read many hours a day, every day. And after just over 6 months I notice zero difference in the charge it holds. Kindle or cover. Exactly the same. So it will be quite a while before I will notice any break down of the battery.

I think its pretty safe to say that by then I will probably have another kindle. Heck, I still have all my kindles from 2008 on and they just wont die. Battery or otherwise. So I trust Amazon's track record on that.

I'll be happy to update at the 1 year mark as a heavy reader. You know, someone that actually uses a Oasis on a daily basis for many books.

Oh and like someone else said. None of that really matters. The bezel on the Voyage is too small for me to comfortably use the haptic buttons without constantly touching the screen. And I have very small hands, which causes me to drop the Voyage out of my hands when I try to do all that with one had. The Oasis is perfect for my hands, has actual buttons and I am reading much much more now with it. So none of this battery talk has any use for me. I must have the Oasis for comfortable reading. That is about all there is too it. If it lasts 2 years, I'll have read 100's and 100's of books on it happily. But looking at my stack of still working fine kindles, I see still having this Oasis great condition even in 2 years. Unless there is something even better coming along, which is hard to imagine. Then I'll add it to my stack of kindles, or pass it down.

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Even if the Oasis battery lasts longer than 1/6th the time of the Voyage battery, it will not last more than 1/2 the time. I think it would most likely be 1/3rd the time.

Now, Jon!

"Who's on first?"

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Now, Jon!

"Who's on first?"

Not the Oasis.

What's on second.