Rant of a Reader

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by BookCat

The OP seems to have resolved their problem; maybe a moderator could close this discussion?

For those that don't like being talked to on threads either?

[issybird]

Originally Posted by BookCat

The OP seems to have resolved their problem; maybe a moderator could close this discussion?

Policy is not to close threads without a pressing cause. Even if the OP is finished, others are free to continue to express their opinions as long as they're interested.

[Ripplinger]

Originally Posted by BookCat

Those claiming that commuting time is the only chance they have to read: really? What about while waiting for dinner to cook? Or when your spouse goes out? Can't you go into your bedroom, or wherever to read without your spouse getting annoyed? Then I'm glad I'm single. Maybe turn the telly off and read. Have you really considered what you do at home that makes it impossible to read in peace? In an earlier post I mentioned a friend who takes long baths to read. Her children have now left home and got families of their own, but she still prefers reading in the bathroom. I guess she loves the steamy ambience.

You're obviously single without much responsibility. Yes, of course I had tons of time to read and do anything I wanted back then, including time to watch TV.

I'd like to see how you manage having more than a full-time job, married, 2 kids and 4 pets to clean up after, school arrangements, after school activities, own an older home that always seems to be needing some work and repairs, an acre of lawn to keep mowed and landscaping cleaned up. Come back then and say we're doing things wrong because the commute to work might be the only time available to read in a particular day.

I don't think you're intentionally trying to be provocative. You're just very naive about life.

[ekbell]

Originally Posted by BookCat

But public situations are rarely so captive. At a cafe, in a queue, in a waiting room, you're there for a short time (unless at A&E in the UK) a conversation won't kill you. Personally I find that the people who are saying that human interaction stresses them out are strange, or have some kind of issue, maybe an autism-spectrum problem. Humans are social animals by nature. Yes, there are many introverts. I tend to move between introvert and extrovert: I like my own company, but I also like the company of other people. If you find social situations distressing then maybe therapy is needed. I'm sorry if that seems harsh, but that's how I see it. I'm trying to be helpful rather than judgemental.

For most of human existence interaction with strangers was both unusual and risky to some degree and understandably stressful. The change to larger communities has been too recent for humans to have changed at a genetic level so it is neither surprising nor strange that many people find interactions with strangers to be stressful to varying degrees. It's only a concern if it interferes that person's quality of life.

I'll cut out the rant about how social anxiety does not equal autism and the use of the word issue to describe behavior the speaker doesn't approve of.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by BookCat

My first question is: why is this character reading in public places if they hate being approached by people enquiring about their book? Why aren't they reading at home? Okay, maybe they have a large family and can't find peace at home, so go to a library, or sit on the loo (I have a friend who reads in the bath and while running the bath.)

The point is that this character has holes for the reader

What holes? What you have here is a failure of imagination. I'll read while waiting for a doctor, waiting for a blood test, waiting for an appointment, waiting for a script to be filled, waiting to meet a friend, waiting for an event to start, waiting for a waiter to bring me a coffee, waiting to be picked up, waiting for an Uber, waiting for my kid to finish an activity, all sorts of situations. And I'm only one real-life person.

"A conversation won't kill you"? Killing me is a pretty low bar, I think. How about "not starting a conversation with this specific person at this time won't kill you"?

Not wanting to be engaged by strangers 100% of the time I'm out in public doesn't make me socially anxious, or autistic, or in need of therapy, not that there is anything wrong with being any of those things. Sometimes I'm chatty, sometimes I'm not. Sometimes I'm in a lot of pain, sometimes I'm at the edge of exhaustion but need to get an errand run, sometimes I'm preoccupied, or sometimes I'm just sick to death of strangers asking "What's wrong with you?" or "Would you like a prayer, dear?"

[4691mls]

Maybe it's people who can't sit quietly and entertain themselves but feel compelled talk to anyone nearby, whether that person is interested or not, who have issues

[meeera]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

Maybe it's people who can't sit quietly and entertain themselves but feel compelled talk to anyone nearby, whether that person is interested or not, who have issues

And if the claim is that constantly chattering to random strangers is the norm, they shouldn't have any trouble finding others who wish to chat with them.

[BookCat]

This thread now reminds me of the comments on a rant youtube video I made many years ago when I owned and lived in a house in an area which became saturated by students. It was called, provocatively, "I Hate Students". (If you look at it now, the comments layout has changed, my replies have been disconnected from the original comments. Youtube changed this some time ago.)

The majority of the comments came from students who hated the video; I replied to their remarks, but then others would make comments covering areas I'd already dealt with in prior responses. The same thing is happening here, and I hate to repeat myself.

Riplinger: your assessment of my situation couldn't be further from the truth; I'm much older than you seem to assume. I owned the "student area" house for 30 years before selling up and moving to my second home, the one I now share with three cats who stay in at night, so I'm familiar with cleaning litter trays, but this only takes a few minutes.
I've taken on lots of responsibility in my life, such as running a small feral cat rescue in my previous home.

I am single (never said yes to those who asked) and don't have children by both choice and it having been inadvisable due to medical issues. I'm now long past child-bearing age. I have to cope with a long-term medical problem I've had all my life, which makes it impossible for me to hold down a job.
Naive? You must be joking! I grew up at the age of 11 when my mother left home. At 14 I spend several months in care before going to live with my brother and his wife. From here I went to live with a boyfriend in Stratford, then off to Uni where I did a degree in Literature. After that life was a hellish adventure. I wish I were young and niave!
You started on the personal stuff, so you got it.

ekbell: for most of human existence we lived in smaller communities where most of the people we met in public would be known to us. Large cities and international travel are relatively modern. Certainly medieval man or woman would suffer tremendously if transplanted to a large urban environment. Viewing our fellow man as a potential enemy is also modern. In smaller communities this label would only be placed onto other groups. In a way our worlds have shrunk from community to nuclear family, anything beyond the members of the nuclear family are considered dangerous: stranger danger. I think this is a very sad viewpoint and not one I take.

meera: there is an inherent contradiction in this situation:
"a person who reads in public places and hates being spoken to,".
This person likes reading. They also dislike human interaction while reading. Conclusion: find a private place to read. Question: why is this person reading in public places? The question could become the crux of the story, the situation and reasons leading to why this character reads in public when they hate human interaction while reading. But the simple answer is: find somewhere else, somewhere private to read.

Misinterpret this as you will. Attack what you think my personal situation is. Do what you like.

Zodwallop:
"For those that don't like being talked to on threads either?"

This thread is becoming like the slightly threatening person who asks what you're reading but isn't interested in your reply, instead they harangue you with veiled insults. In this position there is only one course of action: to leave the situation.
There's a difference between this and the garrulous but pleasant old lady on the bus (she might be me, but I don't take buses).

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by BookCat

meera: there is an inherent contradiction in this situation:
"a person who reads in public places and hates being spoken to,".
This person likes reading. They also dislike human interaction while reading. Conclusion: find a private place to read. Question: why is this person reading in public places? The question could become the crux of the story, the situation and reasons leading to why this character reads in public when they hate human interaction while reading. But the simple answer is: find somewhere else, somewhere private to read.

What if you have no choice about your location? When I am waiting at the airport? Even in the first class lounge, you don't get privacy. Doctor's office (why do they always make an appointment and then not see you until at least 20 minutes after the time of the appointment?). There are quite a few other times where I am required to be in a public area. One friend of mine has it even worse since she goes from the Westcoast Express (train) to Skytrain and then bus as part of her daily commute so a minimum of 30 minutes most days sitting (if lucky, if not standing) and waiting plus the time spent on each transit choice.

For those occasions when someone does insist on talking to me, I will admit to doing monologues which are pretty much guaranteed to have the average listener rolling in the aisle on the way to the exit. What, you don't want to hear more about MPLS compared to Frame Relay or ATM? You don't care about the joy of setting the DIP switches on ARCnet cards? You've never thought about the effect that quantum computing is likely to have on encryption? What about zero bit insertion and constellation choices in high speed modems over POTS? How could you not want to learn more about these topics?

[ekbell]

Viewing our fellow man as a potential enemy is also modern. In smaller communities this label would only be placed onto other groups

I'm not sure where you got this idea that viewing strangers as potential enemies is modern. My oldest daughter collects folk tales which are full of warnings against the stranger (unless they are elderly women in need of help).

My point, however, was that it was normal and to be expected for many (not all) people to find talking to strangers stressful and that there is no need to consider such a person in need of help. I was not trying to imply that such strangers should be viewed as potential enemies. Risky could simply be the risk of humiliation, such as the young man who completely embarrassed himself trying to chat up my oldest (he had a most unfortunate slip of the tongue).

While I don't think someone needs to consider every random person encountered in a public venue as a conversational partner, I do agree that it's best if the circle of familiar people is larger then one's family. It's good to have people other then family and random people met in public venues to talk to. I also think that it is completely reasonable to exchange pleasantries to those frequently encountered.


Speaking of having no choice in venue:

Yesterday I was at the dentist's office, noting how the seats filled up (people appeared to want maximum distance from each other) and reading on my tablet.

I confess I'm a nervous nelly at the dentist and when nervous I'm awful at making conversation. Just sitting and thinking is also a bad idea. But the point is that no one was happy conversing.

BTW having lived in a apartment with no green space, I consider reading or otherwise spending non-conversational time in a park to be a reasonable activity worthy of being respected. I haven't seen people reading in public other than in parks or during unavoidable waits.

[PeterT]

Originally Posted by DNSB

You don't care about the joy of setting the DIP switches on ARCnet cards?

Those were fun! And the trouble of duplicate addresses

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[meeera]

Originally Posted by BookCat

meera: there is an inherent contradiction in this situation:
"a person who reads in public places and hates being spoken to,".
This person likes reading. They also dislike human interaction while reading. Conclusion: find a private place to read. Question: why is this person reading in public places? The question could become the crux of the story, the situation and reasons leading to why this character reads in public when they hate human interaction while reading. But the simple answer is: find somewhere else, somewhere private to read.

Did you not read my reply? None of the examples I gave were "I want to sit and read. I know, I'll go out and do that somewhere public!" They are various times where a person might be in a public or semi-public place and choose to fill in that time with reading. It's not a story, it's my real life, and that of many other people. I don't know why you're exerting effort here trying to tell me I don't exist, or I don't know what happens in my own life.

I don't view everyone outside my nuclear family as an enemy, by the way. I have a large and varied circle of friends and acquaintances. I don't think I became friends with any of them after a random public conversation. I befriend people with whom I share interests and activities, not because we have a common doctor or pharmacist or whatever.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by BookHoarder

Maybe it's just me, but this has been bothering me for some time. It goes like this. You're reading a book, feeling good, lost in the story, and at your absolute happiest someone decides to engage you in conversation. Now this wouldn't be too bad, but it only happens when you're reading. If you're, say, staring at a wall or the tv you're good. No one even knows you're alive. But pick up a book, and suddenly they need to know what's going on with you. Or even worse they ask what you're reading.

I fear the "what you readin?" question. I don't mind it if it comes from someone who actually reads for pleasure. But when it comes from a person whom I know hasn't read a book since they were forced to do so in high school I cringe on my insides. I feel that they don't really want to know, but rather they just do it to relieve some internal boredom within themselves.

But here is the worst moment I've had when reading. I use an ereader, having given up dead tree books for ten years now, and I will be in a room full of coworkers with a lull in work. Each one of them will be goofing on their phones with candy crush, snap chats, and Facebook. Perfect opportunity, I think. I pull out my reader, and start in on my book. Within two paragraphs I'll take a teasing reprimand from a supervisor for wasting time on my book. Said sup will see the others knocking out candy crush levels and whatnot, even joke on how hard some level was, but still speak with me about the book.

I experimented with this by doing the smartphone goofing. Results: not a word. Some will say "read your books on your phone, then". But I can't. I've got a Pocketbook 740 Inkpad 3, best reader I've ever owned, and to read on it is almost like reading on a hardcover book. Just amazing.

Anyway, I'm just shouting out into the void, because to do so at work would probably be frowned upon. If I'm not the only one who has experienced these sorts of reading related problems then I'll this post with this quote:

"Misery loves company!"

I was in the bathtub reading and my wife threw the door open and said, "Don't you want to do anything today?"

That was wife-speak for, "Don't you want to entertain me?"

Some people are actually upset at the idea you enjoy something that doesn't involve, include, or matter to them.

Now, I live with my dog. He's fine with me reading. I'm happy. My ex-wife isn't happy.

[wildhoney66]

sounds like that episode who refused to let Burgess Meredith read in"Time Enough at Last'

which i'm sure has been mentioned before but your story made me think of that