Offering to help with UX Design

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

Generating revenue is indeed the raison d'être for Netflix et al, but not for Calibre. The focus is on function, and that focus has been so successful that Calibre has become the reference standard for personal library management apps. Does everything have to be in pictures to avoid being "alienating and jarring"?

Amen.
FWIW Look what happened to CC, when it tried to convert to a subscription model

FWIW I belong to the 'If it is not broke, don't Fix it' camp.
Calibre did add the ability to have Icon themes and support dark mode .

BTW Have you ever tried to do phone support when the USER has applied themes? Click the Blue Fish Icon. Wot blue fish??? What about whel the user customizes toolbars (like I have. See image)?

[dunhill]

Originally Posted by theducks

Amen.
FWIW Look what happened to CC, when it tried to convert to a subscription model

FWIW I belong to the 'If it is not broke, don't Fix it' camp.
Calibre did add the ability to have Icon themes and support dark mode .

BTW Have you ever tried to do phone support when the USER has applied themes? Click the Blue Fish Icon. Wot blue fish??? What about whel the user customizes toolbars (like I have. See image)?

I agree with you, I also have custom icons but perhaps a variation in the windows of the interface, I don't know if it could be achieved so that it works on all three operating systems. That is another issue to consider.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

Generating revenue is indeed the raison d'être for Netflix et al, but not for Calibre. The focus is on function, and that focus has been so successful that Calibre has become the reference standard for personal library management apps. Does everything have to be in pictures to avoid being "alienating and jarring"?

I don't agree with that. The focus for both Netflix and calibre is on function. But, the function is barely related. Netflix is purely a viewer. It shows a list of things that someone else has decided on. There is really only one action that can be done with those things: look at it. The only other thing you can do with them is rate and maybe add to a list of favourites. Calibre is about managing a set of things and doing more than just looking at them. You can update the details, change the actual thing, change how you view the list of things, communicate with other devices, import and export those things and lots of other things. Exactly what any individual does depends on what they want to do.

The other difference is where it runs. Calibre is running on a multi-purpose computer with a full interface and a mouse and keyboard. Netflix, or at least how I use it, is running on a large screen, using an interface that is designed for distance and a TV remote control to select things.

Both of those things says they aren't comparable applications. Unless @viztastic is actually talking about using the server via a browser. That might make more sense.

And @viztastic mentioned Facebook, Amazon and Google as things that calibre should be compared to. I don't know why Facebook was mention. It just doesn't do the same sort of things. I'm tempted to say the same for Amazon, but, they have Kindles and related apps. When I use these, it they seem to have the same basics as calibre.

For Google, the apps I use are mail and drive in the browser. Both of these present a basic interface like calibre. There is a list of tags or a tree structure on the left, a list of items for whatever item was selected on the left and possibly another pane showing more details for whatever is selected in the list. Mail has a toolbar across the top.

There may be a problem of discoverability in calibre. There are lots of posts of "I didn't know calibre could do that". Or requests for enhancements that are answered with pointing out how to do it now. That I don't know how to fix and it probably isn't fixable as calibre can do so much. It is a problem that exists for any complex application. You just have to look at how few of the functions of Word and similar that most people use.

[Thasaidon]

Originally Posted by davidfor

There may be a problem of discoverability in calibre. There are lots of posts of "I didn't know calibre could do that". Or requests for enhancements that are answered with pointing out how to do it now. That I don't know how to fix and it probably isn't fixable as calibre can do so much. It is a problem that exists for any complex application. You just have to look at how few of the functions of Word and similar that most people use.

I have some sympathy for Viztastic's view as I shared it for a while in the past. I currently think that such a complete revamping of the interface is unnecessary and likely to create factions with different ideas about the redesign and those who do not want it changed.

I also totally agree with Davidfor's comment above.

A couple of things for discussion

What does occur to me is this. Calibre is based around a lot of plugins both those written by Kovid and those written by third parties. Sometimes these plugins have features which duplicate features in other plugins.. ( e.g. look at "Polish" and "Modify ePub")

Would it be beneficial to Calibre to rationalise such duplication?

This may allow a reduction in the number of icons/menu options require, which may help with feature discoverability.

I realise it would be a lot of work and would add no new features to Calibre and may potentially delay new features being developed.

[Sirtel]

The problem is that there have been lots of designers over the years who wanted to change the UI, but the actual work (i.e. coding) must always be done by someone else. As long as that's the case, the UI is not going to change. You won't find a coder here who will implement your ideas; you'll have to write the code yourself if you want a different UI.

As for me, I've used Calibre since 2011 and have no issues with the UI. I might try alternative "skins" from curiosity, but not if they consist of mostly empty white space, which seems to be a popular trend these days. IMO that's just horrible.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by davidfor

I don't agree with that. The focus for both Netflix and calibre is on function.

fwiw, my post was in reply to the contention that the for-profit tech products named were an apt aspirational model for Calibre. I did not say that Netflix did not function well, although there's plenty of chatter to that effect across the interwebs. ALL I said about Netflix, literally the ONLY thing I said about Netflix was that
"Generating revenue is indeed the raison d'être for Netflix " - and if you disagree with that, I am surprised.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

fwiw, my post was in reply to the contention that the for-profit tech products named were an apt aspirational model for Calibre. I did not say that Netflix did not function well, although there's plenty of chatter to that effect across the interwebs. ALL I said about Netflix, literally the ONLY thing I said about Netflix was that
"Generating revenue is indeed the raison d'être for Netflix " - and if you disagree with that, I am surprised.

I definitely agree with that statement. I was disagreeing with the idea that function wasn't part of the focus of the design of the Netflix apps. I probably shouldn't have included your first sentence in my quote.

And honestly, I don't think the design of the applications has had any real impact on the success of the companies that @viztastic mentioned. They are all what they are because of the content they supply.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by davidfor

I was disagreeing with the idea that function wasn't part of the focus of the design of the Netflix apps.

Which is something I neither stated nor implied.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by Thasaidon

. . .

What does occur to me is this. Calibre is based around a lot of plugins both those written by Kovid and those written by third parties. Sometimes these plugins have features which duplicate features in other plugins.. ( e.g. look at "Polish" and "Modify ePub")

Would it be beneficial to Calibre to rationalise such duplication?

Apart from Polish and Modify EPUB, two other 'overlaps' come to mind - Generate Cover and Open With, I dropped both optional plugins in favour of the built in features when they were released. The built in GC is more convenient, and the built in OW functionality is a better fit to my needs.

I occasionally use Polish to subset fonts, and I use Modify routinely to: remove covers, add a jacket to the back of the book, and remove embedded non-DC metadata elements. It doesn't bother me that I sometimes use both, I suppose I could wrap them in an Action Chain script; but all that would mean is that instead of pressing P and Alt+M, I'd sometimes be able to just press Shift+Alt+M.

BR

[jhowell]

This post about the recent changes to the Kindle UI sums up my worries with having someone new to calibre taking on a redesign:

Originally Posted by NullNix

I have no idea what Amazon are on, but I do strongly suspect that nobody on the Kindle UI team actually uses Kindles any more, or they'd have noticed how rage-inducing these UI changes are.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

The problem is that there have been lots of designers over the years who wanted to change the UI, but the actual work (i.e. coding) must always be done by someone else. As long as that's the case, the UI is not going to change. You won't find a coder here who will implement your ideas; you'll have to write the code yourself if you want a different UI.

This. I'm sure non-coding UX experts are wonderful, well-intentioned people. The problem is that they don't seem to have much of a place in the open-source world. Getting someone to write the code (in a cross-platform way) to produce the UI they envision, and to submit the pull requests or patches for them is simply too often a hurdle too far. And pull requests and patch files make the open-source world go 'round.

But then I've always thought that UI design (from a non-coding standpoint) was a bit overrated (sorry--no offense intended). It's like a roofing contractor hiring a full-time drone pilot who never swings a hammer. UX design should never be separated from the coding required to bring the dream to life. Only my opinion of course.

[JSWolf]

Can you do a mock up photo of your UX design you'd like to see with Calibre? Thanks.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Apart from Polish and Modify EPUB, two other 'overlaps' come to mind - Generate Cover and Open With, I dropped both optional plugins in favour of the built in features when they were released. The built in GC is more convenient, and the built in OW functionality is a better fit to my needs.

I occasionally use Polish to subset fonts, and I use Modify routinely to: remove covers, add a jacket to the back of the book, and remove embedded non-DC metadata elements. It doesn't bother me that I sometimes use both, I suppose I could wrap them in an Action Chain script; but all that would mean is that instead of pressing P and Alt+M, I'd sometimes be able to just press Shift+Alt+M.

BR

The similar PI is just that. Similar, but NOT the same. Each does things a bit differently. Does it hurt to have more than one way to create a cover?
I use both versions of many overlaps. Depends on what I don't want done sometimes. CONTROL

[skillachie]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

The problem is that there have been lots of designers over the years who wanted to change the UI, but the actual work (i.e. coding) must always be done by someone else. As long as that's the case, the UI is not going to change. You won't find a coder here who will implement your ideas; you'll have to write the code yourself if you want a different UI.

As for me, I've used Calibre since 2011 and have no issues with the UI. I might try alternative "skins" from curiosity, but not if they consist of mostly empty white space, which seems to be a popular trend these days. IMO that's just horrible.

Could not have said it any better. Calibre is very successful when last I have checked.Tons of apps have come and gone in the space. T

he UI/ Product Designer is underestimating significantly what is involved to get new designs supported. It shows a lack of technical experience from a product designer point of view. Any suggestions should come with the ability to write code to also test the UI or funding for the Calibre team.

[piboy.kumar]

I too did felt little hard in the beginning like @viztastic - but mostly I use the calibre server and web ui, so it's not a big deal for me.

Few videos of new and frequently used features and functionalities will be helpful for the newbies. I feel Calibre is more tuned towards IT Professionals - and we have to read a lot to understand it. More videos and FAQs will be really helpful to a lot of simpletons like me!