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Old 02-19-2019, 02:07 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by jackie_w View Post
Kepubs do support both ligatures and kerning if you add the right line of CSS - body {text-rendering: optimizeLegibility;} - either by hand, via calibre driver or via patch. Ligatures/kerning will only be as good as the font you're using.
I've tried that and still don't see it, using Georgia, Noto Serif or Bookerly. Did I maybe do something wrong?
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:41 PM   #62
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I've tried that and still don't see it, using Georgia, Noto Serif or Bookerly. Did I maybe do something wrong?
How/where did you apply it? I used the kobopatch option in the 'KePub stylesheet additions' patch in libnickel.so.1.0.0.yaml.

It'll take me a little while but later I'll come back and add some screenshots showing ligatures using those 3 fonts in a test kepub.

ETA: As I mentioned earlier it's only going to look as good as the font you're using allows ...

As @ps67 says, it looks like the Kobo built-in Georgia hasn't actually got any ligatures. Either the glyphs are missing or there is no ligature lookup table defined.

My copy of Noto Serif only has 4 ligatures: fi, fl, ffi, ffl, but they are displayed below.

My copy of Bookerly has 6: fi, fl, ffi, ffl, ff, ft

The sideloaded font I use most often is MinionPro which has 27 ligatures defined, but only 8 of them are much use to me: fi, fl, ffi, ffl, ff, ft, fj, Th
Perhaps the rest are more relevant to other languages.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:09 PM   #63
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Georgia has no ligatures (no fi ligature) also in Epub. I don't know if there is a way to have ligatures with Georgia (of course You can use Georgia Pro if You own it).

@jackie_w:
Did You note any drawback, like a lesser precision When You return in the previous position (may be You return on the span, not on the correct paragraph?)

Last edited by ps67; 02-19-2019 at 03:25 PM. Reason: Did You note any drawback...
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:11 PM   #64
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@jackie_w:
Did You note any drawback, like a lesser precision When You return in the previous position (may be You return on the span, not on the correct paragraph?)
If you mean as a result of my KTE koboSpan hacking, then the answer is 'no'.

However, it doesn't necessarily mean that a problem doesn't exist, it just means I've never registered it or it hasn't bothered me enough to get irritated by it. This is the problem when a hack only has an audience of one
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:58 PM   #65
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How/where did you apply it? I used the kobopatch option in the 'KePub stylesheet additions' patch in libnickel.so.1.0.0.yaml.
I'm not at home to check, but it was on the patching process. most likely the libnickel one. I'll check tonight. It's clearly possible to do, so I must have done something wrong somewhere.

Quote:
The sideloaded font I use most often is MinionPro...
MinionPro looks pretty nice. I'll add it to my Kobo. Thanks for the screenshots!
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Old 02-19-2019, 05:03 PM   #66
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If you mean as a result of my KTE koboSpan hacking, then the answer is 'no'.

However, it doesn't necessarily mean that a problem doesn't exist, it just means I've never registered it or it hasn't bothered me enough to get irritated by it. This is the problem when a hack only has an audience of one
Yes, it is true.

I was wondering if Kobo ever thought about solving the ligature problem in Kepub. If they consider it a problem.

Because otherwise the format is quite good, I really like the images that can be enlarged. Also pop up notes work quite well even if they are even better in the Kindle because it handles very long notes too, while Kobo provides a preview but if the note is too long you have to click on "see more" and go to the position of the note.
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:05 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by jackie_w View Post
If you mean as a result of my KTE koboSpan hacking, then the answer is 'no'.

However, it doesn't necessarily mean that a problem doesn't exist, it just means I've never registered it or it hasn't bothered me enough to get irritated by it. This is the problem when a hack only has an audience of one
A long time ago, I produced some kepubs that uses a span per paragraph. And I think some early versions of the extended driver did as well. I don't remember there being issues with the reading position. It's coarse enough that it should handle just about anything. But, I think there was an issue with bookmarks.

Putting the trailing spaces outside the spans shouldn't be a problem with the reading position. Except maybe if the end of a sentence was the end of a page. The stored position is the first character on a page. If that was to be the spaces after a sentence, I don't know what would happen. There is a problem with highlighting. If you highlight so that it starts or ends on the spaces outside the span, and save that, when you reopen the book the highlight isn't displayed properly. An early version of the extended driver did this. I remember discussing it in the driver's thread.
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:50 PM   #68
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A long time ago, I produced some kepubs that uses a span per paragraph. And I think some early versions of the extended driver did as well. I don't remember there being issues with the reading position. It's coarse enough that it should handle just about anything. But, I think there was an issue with bookmarks.

Putting the trailing spaces outside the spans shouldn't be a problem with the reading position. Except maybe if the end of a sentence was the end of a page. The stored position is the first character on a page. If that was to be the spaces after a sentence, I don't know what would happen. There is a problem with highlighting. If you highlight so that it starts or ends on the spaces outside the span, and save that, when you reopen the book the highlight isn't displayed properly. An early version of the extended driver did this. I remember discussing it in the driver's thread.
I came to kepubs pretty late, not until I had the big screen of a KA1, when the old enforced book title header didn't bother me so much. So I missed all the early discussions of the KTE plugin.

I never risked trying one koboSpan per paragraph because currently Kobo's method for koboSpans only seems to contain text not other tags. I wasn't sure what the consequences might be.

I don't really have much use for highlighting, but if I did and starting/ending a highlight on a space caused problems then I think I'd use the same approach as that old Doctor-Patient joke ...

Quote:
Patient: Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this.
Doctor: Well, don't do that, then!
On the whole, my priority has always been to make the text look as "book-like" as I can get it. Everything else is secondary. I know that this is not necessarily a majority viewpoint.
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:55 PM   #69
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@jackie_w: I'm game to take this for a span^Wspin for a while if you have an up-to-date patch laying around .

(NB: I stand by that terrible pun .)
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:31 PM   #70
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@jackie_w: I'm game to take this for a span^Wspin for a while if you have an up-to-date patch laying around .

(NB: I stand by that terrible pun .)
My version of KTE is hacked in many ways (koboSpans, hyphenation, small-caps, sans-serif/monospace fonts and screensaver processing). You're well-aware of that last one .

I don't have a copy of the official KTE with only the koboSpan hacks added, but I know you're a smart lad where Python is concerned

I'll send you a PM shortly with a link to my fully hacked KTE with a few notes on where to find the relevant bits. I think you should find it easy to extract what you need. Perhaps you'll come up with a better way of doing it?
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Old 03-24-2019, 06:15 PM   #71
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Hi,
I am new in the forum, while lately having a KOBO Clara (earlier I had a Kindle Keyboard)

I try to make eBooks, my method is creating a clean html from word, then clean it in a way remove all spans, in sigil build this code with my CSS file to an epub, finally in calibre convert it to azw...

I was happy to have my first KOBO but sending my first epub to the device - using KTE - I was a bit (lot) disappointed.

I didn’t read it earlier but kepub parser is not handling the "page-break", so I must split all the books before breaks....

I thought, can be handle...

But next: not handling the “aligns” as well. Reading in forum a lot realized two way, either hack or touch again all the books what I want to send my device and place the "*" and the important! into all my CSS’s lines which are including "align".

As I am living in Hungary, readying Hungarian language books. Here in our typography we have different layout like for ex. in English part of the word.

And here comes the biggest issue.
Sending the above mentioned "re-created" test book to device it looks UGLY. (and it comes how the dialogues are handled in our typography.
Here is a sample:

"– Semmi újság? – kérdezte."

EnDash&nbspSemmi.....

I learned here that the body-tag "text-rendering : optimizedspeed/legibility…" and the kobo.spans placement are responsible for the layout a lot.

So, my problem with the above sentence:
We start dialogues with a dash, the following nbsp is NOT a fix length space so dialogues in a row (each is in new line) looks ugly.

I have read here that there is an issue with dash handling as well...
Plus, in the above example the "?" is NOT the end of the sentence so making the span around just resulting worse layout.

I would like to have some help from experts.
In the "container „of KTE I know there is a line with regexp where finds the sentence ends for putting kobo.spans around.
Can I "jump" those "! ", "? ",". " situations where the following letter IS NOT a capital? I would like to have the kepub where kobo.spans are only at the sentence start and end, and not splitting a sentence with several kobo.spans

Last edited by Gorcsev; 03-24-2019 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:43 PM   #72
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Quote:
I was happy to have my first KOBO but sending my first epub to the device - using KTE - I was a bit (lot) disappointed.
Do you really need to use kepubs? Have you tried this in the Adobe EPUB renderer?

Quote:
"– Semmi újság? – kérdezte."

EnDash&nbspSemmi.....

I learned here that the body-tag "text-rendering : optimizedspeed/legibility…" and the kobo.spans placement are responsible for the layout a lot.

So, my problem with the above sentence:
We start dialogues with a dash, the following nbsp is NOT a fix length space so dialogues in a row (each is in new line) looks ugly.
What do you mean by that? Also, I really recommend you just learn HTML (or even markdown) and CSS and make your books in it. It will be a lot more predictable and consistent.

Quote:
I would like to have some help from experts.
In the "container „of KTE I know there is a line with regexp where finds the sentence ends for putting kobo.spans around.
Can I "jump" those "! ", "? ",". " situations where the following letter IS NOT a capital? I would like to have the kepub where kobo.spans are only at the sentence start and end, and not splitting a sentence with several kobo.spans
You can change the regexp in the KTE code. If you want, I could also build you a version of kepubify which handles the splitting differently. Note that KTE and kepubify are different things. One is a Calibre plugin and the other is a standalone converter.
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:46 PM   #73
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@Gorsev: There has been some discussion of these problems in the past. Some of them are inherent in kepub parser or the underlying controls used. There isn't any real way to fix them. From memory, using a non-break space was one of the suggestions to improve things. But, I think if you don't justify the text it probably works better.

One thing to do is look at what Kobo does with books from them. If you can find a Hungarian book in the Kobo store and look at it, you can get a clue. I don't know if they have them, but, I don't see it listed as a choice for the store. And I don't know how to search for one.

There are other languages that do dialog in a similar manner (and, of course, which ones escapes me completely at the moment). Maybe looking at samples in those would help work out the best thing to do.

As @geek1011 said, and is sort of discussed further up, the KoboTouchExtended driver or kepubify could be modified to use different strategies for placing the spans. The KoboTouchExtended driver should match what Kobo does reasonably well, unless something has changed recently. The simplest alternative would be one span per paragraph. I know that works for most situations, but I don't know what happens if there are tags inside the paragraph.
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:57 AM   #74
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Smile

Thank you all of your replies

Quote:
Originally Posted by geek1011 View Post
Do you really need to use kepubs? Have you tried this in the Adobe EPUB renderer?
As I have Kobo device where kepub is the developed/supported parser from KOBO I would like to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geek1011 View Post
What do you mean by that? Also, I really recommend you just learn HTML (or even markdown) and CSS and make your books in it. It will be a lot more predictable and consistent.
Please, if my example is not clear enough, don't tell me learn. I like to learn, but as I said I make my books using sigil, and CSS. So at least some knowledge I have about this subject. That makes my problem: the resulted book in kepub is NOT PREDICTABLE at all. There is always a space for improvement I know :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by geek1011 View Post
You can change the regexp in the KTE code. If you want, I could also build you a version of kepubify which handles the splitting differently. Note that KTE and kepubify are different things. One is a Calibre plugin and the other is a standalone converter.
I would like to use the KTE as it is, only I try to find a bypass. For example when the normally sentence end markers are followed by NOT a capital, I would put a replacement character, make the spans, and change back the original chars. I think in English text this could be useful as well. Like in thrilelrs, when .45 is a caliber of a gun, or, 11.30 am when it a time. There are surely more examples.

Thank you, your reply most probably I will make a comparison with sample text what is the difference between KTE-kepubify spanning.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:06 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
@Gorsev: There has been some discussion of these problems in the past. Some of them are inherent in kepub parser or the underlying controls used. There isn't any real way to fix them. From memory, using a non-break space was one of the suggestions to improve things. But, I think if you don't justify the text it probably works better.
Thank you for the answer. :-)

Unfortunately you are right it was discussed earlier, but as I read through that post it was not a settled down solution. As I searched the net, the non-break space is not 100% means "not-variable length space". Better solution (I tried in kepub) would be the fix length "1/4 em-space" but the device displays a □ when the "text-rendering: optimezedlegibility/speed" is used in body tag.

Interim solution a fix length "en-space" but again, it means should be touched all the books what I sideload to KOBO .
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