capabilities of epub compared to mobi - Page 2

HarryT · 06-24-2011, 04:57 AM

You can't; the format specifications are proprietary and have never been published. They've been reverse engineered, however.

DaleDe · 06-24-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comet

Where can I find detailed specifications of mobi and topaz?

there is almost nothing out on topaz. mobi has be reversed engineered and there is a great deal of information available. The absolute best data is in the mobileread wiki.

jbcohen · 06-24-2011, 12:31 PM

I think the main difference between mobi and epub is that epub is an open format that anyone can use while mobi is a proprietary format unique to Amazon and Mobi Pocket.

HarryT · 06-24-2011, 03:00 PM

That's certainly "a" difference, but I'm not sure I'd agree that it's "the main" difference.

comet · 06-25-2011, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

there is almost nothing out on topaz.

But calibre can convert topaz files. So there must exist informations about this format.

DaleDe · 06-25-2011, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comet

But calibre can convert topaz files. So there must exist informations about this format.

I guess I should have said there is very little published. The best definition I have seen is that "Topaz is a collection of glyphs arrange on pages, along with an unproofed OCR text version. An Amazon proprietary format, used to make older books available quickly, since conversion is essentially automatic from scans of the pages of a book, but it reflows very well."

This would make it similar to DJVU but likely with a mobi like structure. Perhaps someone can read the Calibre source code.

Elfwreck · 06-25-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comet

But calibre can convert topaz files. So there must exist informations about this format.

There's a bit of information of how it's put together, based on taking it apart. But since Amazon doesn't allow any to use a Topaz converter, there's no info assembled on "how to make a Topaz ebook"--because you can't.

Info on how they're made & what's possible with Topaz has to be done by spot-check comparison: acquire several Topaz ebooks from Amazon & compare them. This will show what *is* possible with Topaz; it won't show what isn't, because all that can be said so far is "Amazon has never released a Topaz book that has [X feature]."

DiapDealer · 06-25-2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

But calibre can convert topaz files. So there must exist informations about this format.

As far as I know... no... calibre can't convert Topaz. It can handle the metadata for Topaz, but it can't convert it. I suspect that you may be using a certain plugin that automatically converts the OCR'ed text of DRM'ed Topaz files to xhtml (technically an HTMLZ archive) when you import a Topaz file into calibre. Calibre can then easily convert HTMLZ to other formats.

Any clues to the Topaz format will likely be found in the source code of that plugin.

rjnagle · 06-29-2011, 11:00 AM

for the OP:

Seriously, mobi is an inferior and doomed format. It is like Netscape 4. It is finicky, doesn't support many features which epub does and doesn't have good docs. (Josh Tallent's book on kindle formatting is good, but out-of-date). Its support for CSS is limited and its handling of images is terrible. Without floats or borders (supported by epub, not by Kindle), there's not a lot you can do.

The only reason it is still around is that Amazon has 50% of the ebook market now and we have to "downconvert" epub files so that kindlegen can convert them to Kindle.

DiapDealer · 06-29-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjnagle

Seriously, mobi is an inferior and doomed format.

Ah... a prognosticator!
Remember... the Beta VCR format was superior to VHS in almost every way.

DaleDe · 06-30-2011, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Ah... a prognosticator!
Remember... the Beta VCR format was superior to VHS in almost every way.

Except for one, Sony refused to license its manufacture to anyone else until after VHS was a done deal. Oops, that is exactly like Amazon.

Dale

DiapDealer · 06-30-2011, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Except for one, Sony refused to license its manufacture to anyone else until after VHS was a done deal. Oops, that is exactly like Amazon.

Hey, I'm not fanboy-ing for one or the other. I just think it's rather humorous to see laypersons predict the doom of specific technology. Time will tell, I guess... no skin off my back either way.

rjnagle · 07-01-2011, 12:16 PM

Who you calling a layperson? I sir am a priest

Let's just say that I have been writing about ebooks and working in ebooks for a long time.

I realize we're just jabbering in all good fun, but I usually experience several moments of disgust every time I try to downconvert an epub file to a kindle.

Again, I ask you, how many people are using Netscape 4 these days?

It's true that people still buy their kindles and that Amazon carries 50% of the ebook market, but the kindle format hasn't been updated. And if you remember, the people who complained the most about Netscape 4 or IE 5-6 were the web designers --- they spent wicked amounts of time dumbing down their web designs so that things looked noncrappy on multiple platforms.

It's true you can switch out css on kindle ebooks, but Kindle also requires different semantics as well...

The biggest problem with Kindle is they're stuck with having to maintain a legacy format -- it's unlikely that many ebooks published over the last 3 years will ever be upconverted by publishers....

I'll just mention one thing: images. Images had to be jerryrigged to work in the Kindle e-ink devices. When people start using Kindle tablets to read their old purchases, those old purchases are going to look terrible....

HarryT · 07-01-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjnagle

I'll just mention one thing: images. Images had to be jerryrigged to work in the Kindle e-ink devices. When people start using Kindle tablets to read their old purchases, those old purchases are going to look terrible....

What do you mean by "jerryrigged"? I create numerous Kindle books and have had no issues at all with images.

DiapDealer · 07-01-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjnagle

I'll just mention one thing: images. Images had to be jerryrigged to work in the Kindle e-ink devices. When people start using Kindle tablets to read their old purchases, those old purchases are going to look terrible....

I sometimes manage to read for several years without coming across a book that contains images.

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06-24-2011, 04:57 AM	#16
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	You can't; the format specifications are proprietary and have never been published. They've been reverse engineered, however.

06-24-2011, 12:31 PM	#18
jbcohen Wizard Posts: 3,025 Karma: 11196738 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Piper College Device: Samsung A21	I think the main difference between mobi and epub is that epub is an open format that anyone can use while mobi is a proprietary format unique to Amazon and Mobi Pocket.

06-24-2011, 03:00 PM	#19
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	That's certainly "a" difference, but I'm not sure I'd agree that it's "the main" difference.

06-29-2011, 11:00 AM	#24
rjnagle Zealot Posts: 126 Karma: 2167 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Device: ipad 1, Nook Simple Touch, Kindle 3, ebookwise 1150	for the OP: Seriously, mobi is an inferior and doomed format. It is like Netscape 4. It is finicky, doesn't support many features which epub does and doesn't have good docs. (Josh Tallent's book on kindle formatting is good, but out-of-date). Its support for CSS is limited and its handling of images is terrible. Without floats or borders (supported by epub, not by Kindle), there's not a lot you can do. The only reason it is still around is that Amazon has 50% of the ebook market now and we have to "downconvert" epub files so that kindlegen can convert them to Kindle.

07-01-2011, 12:16 PM	#28
rjnagle Zealot Posts: 126 Karma: 2167 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Device: ipad 1, Nook Simple Touch, Kindle 3, ebookwise 1150	Who you calling a layperson? I sir am a priest Let's just say that I have been writing about ebooks and working in ebooks for a long time. I realize we're just jabbering in all good fun, but I usually experience several moments of disgust every time I try to downconvert an epub file to a kindle. Again, I ask you, how many people are using Netscape 4 these days? It's true that people still buy their kindles and that Amazon carries 50% of the ebook market, but the kindle format hasn't been updated. And if you remember, the people who complained the most about Netscape 4 or IE 5-6 were the web designers --- they spent wicked amounts of time dumbing down their web designs so that things looked noncrappy on multiple platforms. It's true you can switch out css on kindle ebooks, but Kindle also requires different semantics as well... The biggest problem with Kindle is they're stuck with having to maintain a legacy format -- it's unlikely that many ebooks published over the last 3 years will ever be upconverted by publishers.... I'll just mention one thing: images. Images had to be jerryrigged to work in the Kindle e-ink devices. When people start using Kindle tablets to read their old purchases, those old purchases are going to look terrible....

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