02-14-2013, 01:11 PM | #151 |
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Neither of those is the scenario under discussion.
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02-14-2013, 01:16 PM | #152 | |
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Since you're clearly not reading, or at least not understanding, what I've said, I'll be ignoring you until you do, since it would be pointless to do otherwise. |
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02-14-2013, 01:21 PM | #153 | ||||||
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I said that from the beginning. Perhaps you should review the conversation, to find the parts you've forgotten. |
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02-14-2013, 01:25 PM | #154 | |
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I'm sure that there were plenty of quirky bookstores in Berlin and (maybe) Munich, but the ones around me were pretty barren and uninviting. Particularly when compared to, say, a B&N or Borders (RIP). |
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02-14-2013, 04:50 PM | #155 | |
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02-14-2013, 05:04 PM | #156 | |
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I plan to do some car shopping this weekend. So I'll probably do a few test drives at random dealerships, waste the time of several salespeople (who could definitely be helping other customers) and then do research on-line to find the best deal (which might be at a completely different dealership). I guess it would be reasonable for someone to think that I'm, ethically, one of the greatest monsters in history. I seem to recall you saying that morals were all opinions, so it would be reasonable for someone to think it's immoral to browse but not have any intention of buying. But if you're now saying that position is unreasonable, than great, I'm glad you agree with me. Last edited by Ninjalawyer; 02-14-2013 at 05:14 PM. |
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02-14-2013, 05:26 PM | #157 |
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Prior to the advent of the "Big Box" bookstore, when I was a kid, bookstores were about efficiency with books stacked floor to ceiling front to back. Then came the analog of today's big-box stores, only for books. There larger corporate cut-throat priced with the same cut-throat business practices drove small friendly neighborhood shops out of business depriving some of a livelihood that may have been handed down for a generation or two. The big-box bookshops were cold, indifferent and pretty much totally lacking in knowledge about any of the sections in the store. It was buy cheap, play low wages and let the customers either buy what was offered or sod-off.
Seems this has clearly gone full circle. Those same mega-stores are now about to be squashed. In many cases it is because the stores themselves are portraits to waste and excess. Amazing amounts of square footage is squandered to offer the illusion of boutique exclusivity...image over substance. They now try to sell an image rather than what those old smaller shops offered, knowledge, quality and personal service. The stores not only are monuments to wasted space but typically located in areas with the highest cost per sq. ft. in a location. Far as I am concerned it is adapt or die, the same thing they did to where the real personal service and quality once existed, the good ol' Mom-n-Pop Book Shoppe...screw B&N, Waldens, or whoever if they can't adjust the factors now driving them into the pavement under the jack-booted-demand of the shareholder. Welcome to the club of failing to adapt. Basically I am using the absurd extension to illustrate what is happening today is the same thing they began dishing out some 20-30yrs ago, here in the US anyway. Nothing will change until business, well those with stockholders anyway, get past the current pyramid scheme of the need for profits to accelerate year-over-year which is pretty much a geometric growth impossible to sustain longer term inherently doomed to collapse under it's own weight. That is the aspect of their model putting on the pressure which is taught in the cookie-cutter "business" schools where they all learn the same model as a one-size-fits-all thing. I love book shops. I visit them often but mostly for reference materials for business. However I need to point out that the references I buy are for too small of a market to entice book stores, of any size, to stock them. So for 3-4 decades those in the business have spent our thousands per year directly with the publishers who, btw, offer us all a 40% discount off the cover price with a trivial minimum order of about $100. That long predates anything web related. Oh, and when I sold those references at conventions or other field related events I was paying between 30%-40% of cover then offered them for sale to the public at a 20% discount of the cover price...and my overhead for these events has HUGE compared to B&M stores. Often I spent more for a week than stores did for a month. Thing was I offered a FULL inventory as well as bringing my store to the very demographic who would go to a B&M for example to find a dozen titles where I would have pretty much all titles in a given category. It was extremely lucrative for me, in fact, promoters began to bid on my presence at their events as well as promoting me being there in promo materials. Eventually the market dried up so did my small business but I got out when it was time...that is how it works. It was fun but it was over...welcome to my world Big-Box-Booksellers. Today it is the website sellers who offer everything I once did save the hands-on access. By this time people know the quality and are comfy with spending a few hundred bucks sight unseen. I had many people, who could order direct use my displays to see if they wanted to buy a book direct from the publishers. I told them sure why not I had zero problem with it, I gave them a card to use as a referral where that particular publisher gave me a small referral fee or credit to my account. Lost a sale but still found a way to grab a small piece of the pie. I sure know I would never have tried to charge my customers a fee to look at books...better a store with people in it than one with nobody wandering the isles. |
02-14-2013, 06:37 PM | #158 |
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02-14-2013, 06:38 PM | #159 |
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At no point have I said that, or remotely suggested it. If you're not going to read what I've posted, or don't (or can't) understand it, there's no point in trying to have a disccusion with you.
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02-14-2013, 08:33 PM | #160 | |
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Now Amazon has reduced costs even further and is driving the big box stores out. What makes them an even more dangerous competitor is that they have managed to combine great service and low prices. I really don't see a future for physical book stores, except for some special market niches. |
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02-14-2013, 09:27 PM | #161 | |
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In any event, I can see this conversation is drawing to a close, but I just wanted you to know how much I enjoyed it. You went from reasonable points to (virtual) sputtering, spitting anger. Delicious. |
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02-14-2013, 10:37 PM | #162 | |
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(And the picture, BTW, is bordering on namecalling. I'm supposed to complain to the moderators about that sort of thing, or so say the moderators. Fortunately for you, I'm not inclined to act like a third grader in the playgound, running to Teacher when the bully wantsw my lunch money.) Last edited by taustin; 02-14-2013 at 10:40 PM. |
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02-15-2013, 01:01 AM | #163 | |
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We are getting what we want! Are we satisfied yet? |
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02-15-2013, 02:17 AM | #164 | ||
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[1]I work for one, and have been with it as it has grown from a small regional chain to a medium sized mult-state regional chain, and what makes us unique is service, service, and service. People will pay a little more for personal service, but only if they actually get personal service. Very few retailers know how to do that any more (or, I suspect, ever really did). |
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02-15-2013, 02:34 AM | #165 |
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Okay I hope you don't think this comment is
but I usually 'browse' online - free chapters, reviews, and all that... I tried to buy locally, in person, whenever I could but... 1) my pin money decreased 2) At least one of my former favorite booksellers kept not having the latest in series I was looking for and then didn't keep faith when I tried to order with them and pick it up (sold it to someone else repeatedly. Tried to claim I wasn't the one who put it on reserve with my name clearly on the paper slip poking out of the top. Sent it back without even bothering to call or email. Wiped out my details in front of me and pretended they lacked the info...) I complained to the chain, but there was no apology or recompense for these incidents. When you buy a book from Amazon, it simply arrives, with no goofiness. 3) Closest bookseller kept claiming that books I knew were still in print...weren't. Wanted me to buy whatever she had in stock, as opposed to books I actually asked about. I bought lovely journals and calendars from her, but could only get the latest titles in the series from her, and they generally had to be special ordered - always slow - always full retail. I was trying to support her Indie store but I just couldn't keep that up. The other biggest bookseller I can reach has had similar issues, just on a larger scale. They have neat trinkets, and usually something I can use in a pinch (for a birthday or whatever) but don't stay stocked on what I like best. Maybe my taste isn't as mainstream as it used to be, or maybe these are just leftovers until they work up the courage to restock, but either way, I usually come in and am ignored until I determine they don't have even half of what I wanted. Maybe I end up with a small purchase if the lines aren't too long. Then I go home and order what I really wanted, often at a healthy discount. That's not showrooming. 4) The fascinating odd titles they used to pile up on tables at the big brick & mortar stores are just...gone. Odd beautiful tomes on spy codes and clothes from the Middle Ages used to jump right onto my basket. There were books on legends of Native peoples, humor through the ages, homes made from gorgeous caves and controversial works of history or archaeology that tried to solve mysterious ruins or lost civilizations - and didn't sound too goofy :P Who knew? Maybe I'd find the history of all major domestic inventions with old photos and woodcut illustrations or joke books claiming to be Steve Jobs or Bill Gates' Secret Laptop? These impulse buys were what drew me back for so many years. I never knew what unusual gem I would find next. Alas, such times are no more. [Though i I can still get fascinating catalogs from Edward Hamilton http://www.hamiltonbook.com/books ] Would I pay a cover charge to browse? No, because I can't afford to eat even further into what little money I can spend on books. And what would I see even if my circumstances dramatically improved? Just more of the same 'big names' and leftovers? What would be the point? Last edited by Shushan; 02-15-2013 at 02:46 AM. |
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