Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Reading Recommendations > Book Clubs

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-24-2010, 08:59 AM   #16
Sparrow
Wizard
Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,395
Karma: 1358132
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3
Quote:
Originally Posted by WT Sharpe View Post
What I am saying is that if the slavery system was as wonderful and charming as Mrs. Mitchell and old Virginia textbooks paint it, it’s a wonder why no whites outside of minstrel shows tried passing for black.
She does tackle what she sees as Northern misconceptions head-on; e.g.
"Accepting Uncle Tom's Cabin as revelation second only to the Bible, the Yankee women all wanted to know about the bloodhounds which every Southerner kept to track down runaway slaves. And they never believed her when she told them she had only seen one bloodhound in all her life and it was a small mild dog and not a huge ferocious mastiff. They wanted to know about the dreadful branding irons which planters used to mark the faces of their slaves and the cat-o'-nine-tails with which they beat them to death, and they evidenced what Scarlett felt was a very nasty and ill-bred interest in slave concubinage. Especially did she resent this in view of the enormous increase in mulatto babies in Atlanta since the Yankee soldiers had settled in the town.
Any other Atlanta woman would have expired in rage at having to listen to such bigoted ignorance but Scarlett managed to control herself."


In the UK, we were educated about the appalling treatment African slaves were forced to endure during capture, transportation and when they were put to work.
Mitchell presents aspects of that history that we weren't told about - how accurate it is though, I don't know. Certainly the field hands are not depicted as being well-treated.
Sparrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 09:15 AM   #17
WT Sharpe
Bah, humbug!
WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
WT Sharpe's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,073
Karma: 157049943
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
She does tackle what she sees as Northern misconceptions head-on; e.g.
"Accepting Uncle Tom's Cabin as revelation second only to the Bible, the Yankee women all wanted to know about the bloodhounds which every Southerner kept to track down runaway slaves. And they never believed her when she told them she had only seen one bloodhound in all her life and it was a small mild dog and not a huge ferocious mastiff. They wanted to know about the dreadful branding irons which planters used to mark the faces of their slaves and the cat-o'-nine-tails with which they beat them to death, and they evidenced what Scarlett felt was a very nasty and ill-bred interest in slave concubinage. Especially did she resent this in view of the enormous increase in mulatto babies in Atlanta since the Yankee soldiers had settled in the town.
Any other Atlanta woman would have expired in rage at having to listen to such bigoted ignorance but Scarlett managed to control herself."


In the UK, we were educated about the appalling treatment African slaves were forced to endure during capture, transportation and when they were put to work.
Mitchell presents aspects of that history that we weren't told about - how accurate it is though, I don't know. Certainly the field hands are not depicted as being well-treated.
Slavery is such an emotion-laden topic that I don't know if we'll ever get an unbiased picture of what life was like under the American system. Furthermore, if we are ever presented with such a picture, how would we recognize it?

The horrors spoken of in Uncle Tom's cabin were all real. There really were people who used whips, chains, and dogs on slaves. The only question is how widespread these horrors were. Even in Harriet Beecher Stowe's book many slaveholders were depicted as kind and caring.

Last edited by WT Sharpe; 02-24-2010 at 09:21 AM.
WT Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 02-24-2010, 09:19 AM   #18
BenG
Home Guard
BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
BenG's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,728
Karma: 86721650
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Alpha Ralpha Boulevard
Device: Kindle Oasis 3G, iPhone 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by WT Sharpe View Post
To her credit, the characters created by Margaret Mitchell, black and white, are for the most part fully drawn and three-dimensional. I don’t see intentional malice in her characterizations, and there are instances in the book where the slaves are shown to have better sense than their owners, but still I see a lot of bias.
Mitchell had a lot of the preconceptions of many of the most well-intentioned whites in the south. To her credit, with the money from Gone With The Wind, she set up a foundation to fund scholarships to help blacks become doctors which is still in existence to this day.
BenG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 09:27 AM   #19
WT Sharpe
Bah, humbug!
WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
WT Sharpe's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,073
Karma: 157049943
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenG View Post
Mitchell had a lot of the preconceptions of many of the most well-intentioned whites in the south. To her credit, with the money from Gone With The Wind, she set up a foundation to fund scholarships to help blacks become doctors which is still in existence to this day.
I didn't know that, and I'm glad you pointed it out.

As I said, I'm not trying to judge her, but I am trying to understand her.
WT Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 09:42 AM   #20
BenG
Home Guard
BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BenG ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
BenG's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,728
Karma: 86721650
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Alpha Ralpha Boulevard
Device: Kindle Oasis 3G, iPhone 6
Well, I'm from Atlanta so I know these things.

Just before I moved away they opened her old home as a museum.
http://www.margaretmitchellhouse.com/
BenG is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 02-24-2010, 01:00 PM   #21
kilohertz53
Zealot
kilohertz53 will become famous soon enoughkilohertz53 will become famous soon enoughkilohertz53 will become famous soon enoughkilohertz53 will become famous soon enoughkilohertz53 will become famous soon enoughkilohertz53 will become famous soon enough
 
kilohertz53's Avatar
 
Posts: 141
Karma: 671
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Harwichport, MA
Device: Sony PRS-500, Sony PRS-350, Augen "The Book"
It's been at least 40 years since I read GWTW, but I still remember quite a lot of it. The novel is a product of its time and place, and, yes, 74 years down the road, some of it is pretty cringe-worthy. But the basic plot still serves as a prototype for a certain type of romance novel, where the haughty, spoiled, bitchy heroine has a love/hate relationship with the roguish, swashbuckling hero through trying historical times. I think this sub-genre kind of peaked in the 1970s with authors like Rosemary Rodgers and Kathleen Woodwiss, but I don't read romance anymore and I could be dead wrong.

Do you suppose that Margaret Mitchell drew her inspiration from Shakespeare's Taming of the Shrew?
kilohertz53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 01:53 PM   #22
Sparrow
Wizard
Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,395
Karma: 1358132
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilohertz53 View Post
Do you suppose that Margaret Mitchell drew her inspiration from Shakespeare's Taming of the Shrew?
I didn't think Scarlett shrewish; she put me more in mind of Becky Sharp from 'Vanity Fair' (maybe also a dash of Moll Flanders).
Sparrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 06:45 AM   #23
Osdog
Junior Member
Osdog began at the beginning.
 
Osdog's Avatar
 
Posts: 4
Karma: 10
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Greater Manchester UK
Device: sony 505
Quote:
I read this a couple of times, but it's been years. About all I remember is wanting to yank Scarlett baldheaded for being such a brat.
Well she made you think, and evoked a response. I thought that she came over very well, and though I disliked her intensly too, the book worked from that point of view. All in all an excellent read.
Osdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 09:48 AM   #24
Sparrow
Wizard
Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,395
Karma: 1358132
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osdog View Post
All in all an excellent read.
I agree - one of the best books I have ever read!!

Lilac_jive for nominating it; I'd never have read it if it hadn't been for the MRBC!
Sparrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 11:07 AM   #25
phenomshel
ZCD BombShel
phenomshel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.phenomshel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.phenomshel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.phenomshel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.phenomshel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.phenomshel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.phenomshel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.phenomshel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.phenomshel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.phenomshel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.phenomshel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
phenomshel's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,793
Karma: 8293322
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Frozen North (aka Illinois, USA)
Device: iPad, STB Kindle Oasis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osdog View Post
Well she made you think, and evoked a response. I thought that she came over very well, and though I disliked her intensly too, the book worked from that point of view. All in all an excellent read.
Oh, definitely! Yeah, there's no way I'd read a book that large (before ebooks) a couple of times if I hadn't enjoyed it. The book is now and was then a good read. I've always thought Mitchell did a good job with her characters since I remember that Scarlett annoyed me that intensely 15 years after I read the book!
phenomshel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 03:14 PM   #26
Sparrow
Wizard
Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,395
Karma: 1358132
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3
I haven't read much romantic fiction; but a common theme seems to be the catharsis of the heroine by cruelty and rape.

It's an aspect of 'Wuthering Heights' that seems to appeal to a lot of its fans - the brutality of Heathcliffe.

We have another example in 'Gone with the Wind' when Rhett forces himself on Scarlett, Ch 54:

"He hurt her and she cried out, muffled, frightened. Up the stairs he went in the utter darkness, up, up, and she was wild with fear. He was a mad stranger and this was a black darkness she did not know, darker than death. He was like death, carrying her away in arms that hurt. She screamed, stifled against him and he stopped suddenly on the landing and, turning her swiftly in his arms, bent over and kissed her with a savagery and a completeness that wiped out everything from her mind but the dark into which she was sinking and the lips on hers."

and then Scarlett the following morning:

"The man who had carried her up the dark stairs was a stranger of whose existence she had not dreamed. And now, though she tried to make herself hate him, tried to be indignant, she could not. He had humbled her, hurt her, used her brutally through a wild mad night and she had gloried in it. Oh, she should be ashamed, should shrink from the very memory of the hot swirling darkness! A lady, a real lady, could never hold up her head after such a night. But, stronger than shame, was the memory of rapture, of the ecstasy of surrender."

I'm curious to know how scenes like this speak to fans of romantic fiction?
What is their view of Rhett?
Sparrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 08:04 PM   #27
Katti's Cat
Wizard
Katti's Cat can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Katti's Cat can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Katti's Cat can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Katti's Cat can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Katti's Cat can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Katti's Cat can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Katti's Cat can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Katti's Cat can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Katti's Cat can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Katti's Cat can program the VCR without an owner's manual.Katti's Cat can program the VCR without an owner's manual.
 
Katti's Cat's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,259
Karma: 175640
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brisbane Australia
Device: Sony PRS-600
105 pages in and I give up. I just can't get past the characters - although colourful described I dislike them. And I just can't be bothered reading this book again when I dislike the characters so much.

I will however follow the discussion as I am interested as to why everyone thinks this book is so great.

Soz, total failure here
Katti's Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 09:27 PM   #28
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katti's Cat View Post
105 pages in and I give up. I just can't get past the characters - although colourful described I dislike them. And I just can't be bothered reading this book again when I dislike the characters so much.

I will however follow the discussion as I am interested as to why everyone thinks this book is so great.

Soz, total failure here
I'm on about page 40!

I do think I want to read it, but certainly not going to git 'er dun this go round.
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 10:42 AM   #29
MelC
Evangelist
MelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it is
 
MelC's Avatar
 
Posts: 410
Karma: 2081
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Device: Cybook Gen3, PRS600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
I'm curious to know how scenes like this speak to fans of romantic fiction?
What is their view of Rhett?
I haven't quite gotten to this part yet (200 pages to go...) but your analysis is interesting. It reminds me of something a friend once told me that she learned in a film class about Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds that made me look at it a different way. If you look at it from a feminist perspective (and I am now coming to realize that GWTW is one of the great early feminist novels so this fits) the clear theme is that a strong, independent woman is anathemic to the world - she must be violently forced into submission and, moreover, convinced that submission is her proper place, before she can live harmoniously within the world again.
MelC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 10:49 AM   #30
MelC
Evangelist
MelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it isMelC knows what time it is
 
MelC's Avatar
 
Posts: 410
Karma: 2081
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Device: Cybook Gen3, PRS600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katti's Cat View Post
105 pages in and I give up. I just can't get past the characters - although colourful described I dislike them. And I just can't be bothered reading this book again when I dislike the characters so much.

I will however follow the discussion as I am interested as to why everyone thinks this book is so great.

Soz, total failure here
I think characterization is actually one of the great successes of this book. Obviously a bunch of the characters are thinly defined but the main characters - Scarlett, Rhett, Ashley, Melanie are complex in the extreme if you follow their development throughout the book. Their actions and statements are layered with meaning and different potential motives behind them. No one is all good or all bad (and yes that includes the supposedly sainted Melanie Wilkes). Who uses who? What are the consequences, intended and accidental, what are the intentions stated and secret, the book is one big psychological knot begging to be unravelled.

I also think that the book is worth reading for its portrayal of the south its heydey and fall, the war and its strategems, the effects of the war on the unprepared, the statements it makes about politics, feminism, classicism and racism and the origins of the ku klux klan even if you never end up being that interested in the characters.

Mel
MelC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MobileRead Discussion: The Machine Stops by E. M. Forster (spoilers) pilotbob Book Clubs 66 04-02-2014 03:19 PM
MobileRead Discussion Thread: The Hound of the Baskervilles (spoilers) pilotbob Book Clubs 45 10-28-2013 01:50 AM
MobileRead Discussion Thread: The Time Traders (spoilers) pilotbob Book Clubs 32 02-24-2009 03:44 AM
Brisingr/Inheritance discussion (spoilers) nekokami Reading Recommendations 6 01-15-2009 10:22 AM
Mitchell, Margaret: Gone With the Wind. v1. 9 May 07 HarryT BBeB/LRF Books 8 05-12-2007 09:54 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:23 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.