New Leaf April 2018 Discussion • Making History by Stephen Fry - Page 2

issybird · 04-15-2018, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmw

I can't find any suggestion that "moil" has been used in place of mohel ("moil" has several senses defined in the OED but none relating to mohel). The emphasis applied in the text it may have been to indicate that his mother didn't know the right way to spell it ... maybe.

I'm not buying it, since his mother would have been saying it, not writing it. (I know you're just trying, here.) I think it's Fry making sure we didn't miss the point of the band's name, alas. Nothing like treating your readers like dopes.

gmw · 04-15-2018, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orlok

[...] I also though the plot device used to effect "time travel" was quite clever - sending the pills and birds back, without actually travelling themselves. [...]

Yes, that was something that I did like. Less dramatic that having to walk around in the past, but definitely clever. And while the dead rat thing was something we knew was coming from the second chapter, I did think it was a neat way to undo the problem.

Speaking of things I did like, or at least found interesting...

Quote:

Originally Posted by latepaul

[...][*]the first few historical chapters turning out to be his thesis. This just literally made me stop and go "what?" so that I was thinking about the format of the writing rather than the story.
[...]

I did and didn't like this. It definitely pulled me out of the story when I had to take in that these chapters were supposed to be his thesis (you start trying to re-evaluate your assumptions), but the fact that they also seem to be telling part of the intended story was at the very least interesting. It seemed obvious that you were supposed to take the events seriously, and after getting past the thesis-thing, they continued to be parts that I found more interesting than the contemporary story with the blundering Michael.

CRussel · 04-15-2018, 10:26 AM

Ok,there's almost no chance I'll manage to finish this piece of overblown, self-indulgent, dreck, but perhaps, if I can get to where it supposedly gets better. Right now I'm taken with the comparison of his overly wordy thesis with entire passages that shouldn't be there, and the overly wordy text of the book itself. Perhaps Fry is self-aware enough as a writer to make a commentary on his own work?

Catlady · 04-15-2018, 11:24 AM

Oh my. I thought I would read the book today as a break from working on my income taxes. But maybe I'll clean the toilet instead.

CRussel · 04-15-2018, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catlady

Oh my. I thought I would read the book today as a break from working on my income taxes. But maybe I'll clean the toilet instead.

I was thinking of cleaning the tile on my bathtub with a toothbrush and Q-Tips myself. But that would work too.

OK, I'm being perhaps a bit harsh. It has moments of humour, though only if you can 'read it' in your head with Stephen Fry's droll, dry, voice. I had the same response to his Mythos, I'm afraid. I fear book length writing is not his medium.

bfisher · 04-15-2018, 12:22 PM

The book was a mixed bag for me.

Stylistically, the screenplay portions didn’t work.

He made a good argument about the rise of the Nazi movement being independent of Hitler. However, he weakened his argument somewhat by putting Gloder in the 16th Bavarian Reserve Rgt, and having Gloder start the Nazi movement in Bavaria taking over Drexler’s DAP. Why not have Gloder start elsewhere, if he wanted to demonstrate the inevitability of the rise of the Nazi movement?

fantasyfan · 04-15-2018, 12:44 PM

Fry impressed me enormously as a reader for Audible and I also heard him give a fine interview about his belief system on television. However, I felt in his retelling of the Greek myths in Mythos he did indeed get in the way of the raw archetypal power of those narratives. Still, I was looking forward to this book. Sadly, I found it a self-indulgent exercise which simply didn’t work for me. The sheer wordiness was off-putting and it didn’t even strike me as a decent exercise in alternate history. I found myself trudging through the book thinking about how much better Philip K Dick deals with similar subject matter.

Bookworm_Girl · 04-15-2018, 01:17 PM

Self-indulgent! That's the word I was trying to pin-point while I read this book. I kept thinking OTT, trying to show off too much, UGH! I read a book sample when it was nominated which is why I didn't vote for it. So, I started with low expectations but was keeping an open mind. I just found it generally irritating and campy. The main character was just annoying. Like others I didn't like the movie script narrative. Also I didn't like the tone when it would switch to the war scene dialogue. It seemed off - not enough transition from the modern scenes.

I think it had more potential than it achieved, and I think Fry had the capability to achieve more if he hadn't gotten in the way himself or if he just got over himself or something like that!

I know very little about Stephen Fry. Never watched or followed him. When I would travel in England while his travel show in America was showing, there was lots of talk in the office and the pubs about it. People would hear my obviously "not-English" accent and wanted to tell you about the places they saw in the series.

Catlady · 04-15-2018, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRussel

I was thinking of cleaning the tile on my bathtub with a toothbrush and Q-Tips myself. But that would work too.

OK, I'm being perhaps a bit harsh. It has moments of humour, though only if you can 'read it' in your head with Stephen Fry's droll, dry, voice. I had the same response to his Mythos, I'm afraid. I fear book length writing is not his medium.

All I know about Stephen Fry is that he is apparently a comedian and narrated the UK Harry Potter books. I have no idea what he sounds like. Wonder why Making History didn't become an author-narrated audiobook.

CRussel · 04-15-2018, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catlady

All I know about Stephen Fry is that he is apparently a comedian and narrated the UK Harry Potter books. I have no idea what he sounds like. Wonder why Making History didn't become an author-narrated audiobook.

My first experience of Stephen Fry was as Jeeves, in the BBC/Masterpiece Theater versions of P.G. Wodehouse's Jeeves and Wooster. (With Hugh Laurie as Bertie Wooster.) Then as a PR executive in Absolute Power. Though he got his start in A Bit of Fry and Laurie, which I didn't see until much later when it was on Amazon Prime. He has (or can have) the absolutely perfect haughty butler voice.

Bookpossum · 04-15-2018, 06:41 PM

He also did a lovely Pooh in the audiobooks of Winnie the Pooh and The House at Pooh Corner, as part of a wonderful cast taking part and all having a lot of fun.

To get back to the book, I was left wondering just who his target audience was. I suspect it was young and silly undergraduates, who might think it funny to insert narrative sections into a thesis, and also think it all terribly clever.

There’s one good thing about this book - we all seem to be pretty much in agreement about it!

CRussel · 04-15-2018, 06:49 PM

No doubt he is a gifted narrator. His Harry Potter was superb. (And not available to Americans.)

I'm at 60% and soldiering on. I said I'd read the selections for the new club, and I'm determined to do my best.

Bookworm_Girl · 04-15-2018, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

To get back to the book, I was left wondering just who his target audience was. I suspect it was young and silly undergraduates, who might think it funny to insert narrative sections into a thesis, and also think it all terribly clever.

I wondered what type of audience enjoyed this book too. The Goodreads reviews are rated 70% at 4/5 stars. This book was published 20 years ago. When I was reading it I tried to put myself back in the mindset of that time period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

There’s one good thing about this book - we all seem to be pretty much in agreement about it!

Finally we found common ground.

Dazrin · 04-15-2018, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

I wondered what type of audience enjoyed this book too. The Goodreads reviews are rated 70% at 4/5 stars. This book was published 20 years ago. When I was reading it I tried to put myself back in the mindset of that time period.

I was in my 3rd/4th year of college. I think I would have enjoyed this LESS then than I did now.

Bookpossum · 04-15-2018, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazrin

I was in my 3rd/4th year of college. I think I would have enjoyed this LESS then than I did now.

You were obviously a more sensible undergraduate than I was imagining!

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04-15-2018, 10:26 AM	#18
CRussel (he/him/his) Posts: 12,159 Karma: 79742714 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sunshine Coast, BC Device: Oasis (Gen3),Paperwhite (Gen10), Voyage, Paperwhite(orig), Fire HD 8	Ok,there's almost no chance I'll manage to finish this piece of overblown, self-indulgent, dreck, but perhaps, if I can get to where it supposedly gets better. Right now I'm taken with the comparison of his overly wordy thesis with entire passages that shouldn't be there, and the overly wordy text of the book itself. Perhaps Fry is self-aware enough as a writer to make a commentary on his own work?

04-15-2018, 11:24 AM	#19
Catlady Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,345 Karma: 52398889 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip	Oh my. I thought I would read the book today as a break from working on my income taxes. But maybe I'll clean the toilet instead.

04-15-2018, 12:22 PM	#21
bfisher Wizard Posts: 1,638 Karma: 28483498 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ottawa Canada Device: Sony PRS-T3, Galaxy (Aldiko, Kobo app)	The book was a mixed bag for me. Stylistically, the screenplay portions didn’t work. He made a good argument about the rise of the Nazi movement being independent of Hitler. However, he weakened his argument somewhat by putting Gloder in the 16th Bavarian Reserve Rgt, and having Gloder start the Nazi movement in Bavaria taking over Drexler’s DAP. Why not have Gloder start elsewhere, if he wanted to demonstrate the inevitability of the rise of the Nazi movement?

04-15-2018, 12:44 PM	#22
fantasyfan Wizard Posts: 1,368 Karma: 26886344 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ireland Device: Kindle Oasis 3, 4G, iPad Air 2, iPhone IE	Fry impressed me enormously as a reader for Audible and I also heard him give a fine interview about his belief system on television. However, I felt in his retelling of the Greek myths in Mythos he did indeed get in the way of the raw archetypal power of those narratives. Still, I was looking forward to this book. Sadly, I found it a self-indulgent exercise which simply didn’t work for me. The sheer wordiness was off-putting and it didn’t even strike me as a decent exercise in alternate history. I found myself trudging through the book thinking about how much better Philip K Dick deals with similar subject matter.

04-15-2018, 01:17 PM	#23
Bookworm_Girl E-reader Enthusiast Posts: 4,871 Karma: 36507503 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Southwest, USA Device: Kindle Oasis 3; Kobo Aura One; iPad Mini 5	Self-indulgent! That's the word I was trying to pin-point while I read this book. I kept thinking OTT, trying to show off too much, UGH! I read a book sample when it was nominated which is why I didn't vote for it. So, I started with low expectations but was keeping an open mind. I just found it generally irritating and campy. The main character was just annoying. Like others I didn't like the movie script narrative. Also I didn't like the tone when it would switch to the war scene dialogue. It seemed off - not enough transition from the modern scenes. I think it had more potential than it achieved, and I think Fry had the capability to achieve more if he hadn't gotten in the way himself or if he just got over himself or something like that! I know very little about Stephen Fry. Never watched or followed him. When I would travel in England while his travel show in America was showing, there was lots of talk in the office and the pubs about it. People would hear my obviously "not-English" accent and wanted to tell you about the places they saw in the series.

04-15-2018, 06:41 PM	#26
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,137 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	He also did a lovely Pooh in the audiobooks of Winnie the Pooh and The House at Pooh Corner, as part of a wonderful cast taking part and all having a lot of fun. To get back to the book, I was left wondering just who his target audience was. I suspect it was young and silly undergraduates, who might think it funny to insert narrative sections into a thesis, and also think it all terribly clever. There’s one good thing about this book - we all seem to be pretty much in agreement about it!

04-15-2018, 06:49 PM	#27
CRussel (he/him/his) Posts: 12,159 Karma: 79742714 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sunshine Coast, BC Device: Oasis (Gen3),Paperwhite (Gen10), Voyage, Paperwhite(orig), Fire HD 8	No doubt he is a gifted narrator. His Harry Potter was superb. (And not available to Americans.) I'm at 60% and soldiering on. I said I'd read the selections for the new club, and I'm determined to do my best.

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