25 year old computer file?

[mr ploppy]

Even if I was still alive in 50 years I would be too busy dribbling to care about computer files. I don't think it will be the problem people seem to think though. If you can still run old C64 programs on a modern computer through an emulator, you will still be able to open a zip file and read html.

[Greg Anos]

And run the most common formats. More conversion tools will be available for the common formats than will be available for the less common formats. And don't wait forever to convert! There were tools to convert data to IBM format floppies from C64 back when IBM compatibles were taking over the world. But 20+ years later, none of them were considered worth the space to keep...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Even if I was still alive in 50 years I would be too busy dribbling to care about computer files. I don't think it will be the problem people seem to think though. If you can still run old C64 programs on a modern computer through an emulator, you will still be able to open a zip file and read html.

The problem is likely to be not reading the file, but reading the media. Do you have a machine that can read Commodore 64 cassette tapes?

If you've transferred your files from one medium to another, as the media change, there's no problem. The issue arises when you suddenly need to read very old media, and you don't have the hardware to do it.

Funnily enough, this very week I had to go out and buy a USB floppy disk drive, because I had a need to read some files that I only had on floppy disk, and none of my current PCs has a floppy drive.

[mandahill]

Archivist and IT professionals do a lot of thinking about these issues and there are experts in most countries with the ability to read obsolete media and to convert obsolete file formats. Probably for a price, though...

My feeling is that the 'Digital Dark Age' notion is a scare tactic to rustle up some funding for digital preservation initiatives. If the information is important enough, a way will always be found to convert it into a readable form. Given the ease of duplication of digital material, my feeling is that archivists are more likely to be coping with a digital flood of material in the future (and trying to decide what on earth is worth keeping!).

Manda

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The problem is likely to be not reading the file, but reading the media. Do you have a machine that can read Commodore 64 cassette tapes?

I could buy one from any car boot for a couple of quid ...

But I think we will get a lot of warning before hard disks become obsolete. Or CD/DVD for that matter. Even after they stop being sold new you will be able to get used ones for at least another 5 years or so, that would be the time to start moving them to whatever comes next.

All my important files are stored in various places online now anyway, as well as on a spare hard disk.

[mcgriff]

Excellent points all. As some of you have pointed out the true obstacle could be a hardware issue not a software issue. None of us can be quite certain how we will be doing our computing 20 years from now. I tried to run and load Civilization II earlier today jut to test my theories. Guess what? I failed (Vista 64 bit). I am sure there is some way to get it to work, but I just don't have the time or the patience to get it to run. I can't say my attitude will be any different when my ebooks become unreadable. If a game like Civ II can't get my lazy rear in gear I doubt a book I want to reread would.

For me, ereading is most likely going to be a shorter term enjoyment and convenience.

[Penforhire]

This is a serious issue for CAD files where I work. We've got machines whose component drawings go back > 40 years (all the way to hand-drawn vellum) and through a series of completely different digital formats. You have to dedicate time and money to keeping files accessible (both media and format) over time.

For photos, for example, I scanned all my slides and moved everything digital off old zip disks and floppies, onto CD's, and now onto DVD's.

I'm not sure what to do about the e-book formats yet but I'm doing the same thing with e-book media, copying files to the latest 'standard' (Blu-Ray is probably next for me).

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

How much do you value your data? There are no standards that last. So you have to convert your files on a steady basis. If they are non-executable files. (i.e. e-books, music, pictures) You will just have to run them thru a conversion program every so often, to keep up with the new standards.

Indeed. I still have documents created on CBM machines 30 years ago, as well as all my other key files from then to now. Some of them have lost a little formatting along the way in the conversion(s), but all are readable and usable.

[MV64]

I really don't see the problem with files becoming outdated. Even with NASA, it seems that eventually someone there (if given funds and a specific job to figure it out) could find ways to open those old files.

What I AM concerned about is the Digital Dark Age scenario. As an historian, so much of what we know about the past we know from things left behind. Well, so much of our lives and reality now exists virtually that historians of the future will have a very, very skewed interpretation of how we lived today. And that worries me. Much of what we are today will simply disappear.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by MV64

I really don't see the problem with files becoming outdated. Even with NASA, it seems that eventually someone there (if given funds and a specific job to figure it out) could find ways to open those old files.

The very real problem that NASA has is not that they can't read the files, but that the magnetic tapes, many of which are now 50 years old, are physically degrading, and some of them can no longer be read. A lot of these tapes have been irretrievably lost as a consequence, and that's a tragedy, since this is "history" which is gone forever.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by mcgriff

I tried to run and load Civilization II earlier today jut to test my theories. Guess what? I failed (Vista 64 bit). I am sure there is some way to get it to work, but I just don't have the time or the patience to get it to run. I can't say my attitude will be any different when my ebooks become unreadable. If a game like Civ II can't get my lazy rear in gear I doubt a book I want to reread would.

If you had some need to run an old computer program you could just install the OS it needs. MSDOS will still work on modern computers.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

If you had some need to run an old computer program you could just install the OS it needs. MSDOS will still work on modern computers.

A virtual machine, using, for example, the free "VMWare" player, is by far the easiest way to do this.

[GeoffC]

Who says the Floppy is dead !!!! (BBC web link - April 2010)

"Sony has said it will stop making floppy disks, after nearly three decades of manufacture. Yet millions of them are still being bought every year."

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

A virtual machine, using, for example, the free "VMWare" player, is by far the easiest way to do this.

For now, but that might not work in the future. Vista killed off Virtual Daemon for a few weeks, if it was no longer being developed that would have been the end of it.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

For now, but that might not work in the future. Vista killed off Virtual Daemon for a few weeks, if it was no longer being developed that would have been the end of it.

Which is why the growth of Linux has been so important. The ability to port (Source code!) as necessary to future machines...And you can run old versions (as necessary) to preserve old executables. I expect that somebody could write a virtual Linux for old Linuxes under new Linuxes, if needed.