11-25-2017, 12:10 PM | #46 | |
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11-25-2017, 01:47 PM | #47 |
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The researcher's blog post triggered poor reading in me. My eyes glazed over and my mind wandered. I think he was saying that if people thought they were reading something "genre," science fiction in their test, then they didn't try as hard as if they thought they were reading so-called literary fiction. Kind of fits expectations, doesn't it? I hope they do more studies with different comparisons. It might show something unexpected. We can hope, anyway.
We can also hope he gets someone else to write it up. Someone who uses fewer words and less jargon would be good. |
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11-25-2017, 11:28 PM | #48 | |
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There was an unexpected conclusion from the study. It was hypothesized that people reading SF would put more effort into world building in their minds since it's usually quite different from what we're used to, but surprisingly that wasn't generally the case. My guess is that most people read SF for fun, and when they read SF-specific details, they are absorbed more for setting the mood rather than scrutinized for important information. |
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11-26-2017, 12:39 AM | #49 | |
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Are we going to pretend that terms such as corporal and ensign (and nevermind what the expletive deleted is the lowest rank of commissioned officer—also referred to as an officer and a gentleman or an larval officer depending on your prejudices—I've left out other less complementary terms such as 90-day wonders—is doing waiting on tables in a restaurant serving enlisted personnel) are in common use in science fiction other than stories set in military or military-style settings? Letter to the editor vs. message to Command? Mrs. Moyer consistently through the text vs. Engineer Grady in the first paragraph and Grady with no honorific after that? I did find that the description of using a stylus to handwrite his letter to the editor humourous. Are there no keyboards real or touch in that future? Personally, when I read science fiction, I pay attention to the details of the world building. Oddly, most of my favoured authors have done the same. I look at the effort Hal Clement put into such an unlikely worlds as Mesklin or Iceworld as examples. Calling that patische science fiction could only be done by someone who read little science fiction and didn't much like what he/she read. Last edited by DNSB; 11-26-2017 at 01:09 AM. |
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11-26-2017, 01:13 AM | #50 | |
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11-26-2017, 07:35 AM | #51 | |
o saeclum infacetum
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The discussion has moved on and I'm not referencing the quoted post, but even from my side of the aisle I think that both sides should temper their more judgmental terms about the other. I'm always rather surprised that some think that those who read litfic or nonfiction aren't reading for fun. Fun is where you find it. |
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11-26-2017, 09:23 AM | #52 |
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Lordy. A bit late to chime in here I know. I love reading reading science fiction, but the science fiction version of the study was unreadable. Just changing a few marker words doesn't make a story science fiction. In this case, it made a badly written story worse. I could make it through the first version okay, because I could identify with the setting with little effort. The SF version was harder because of the ridiculous attempts to make the story SF. I'd like to see what the results would have been if they had used a better written narrative.
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11-26-2017, 09:55 AM | #53 | |
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"You enjoy reading for reading's sake, don't you?" I immediately went with my gut and replied, "yes." He said that he did not. But after further contemplation, I realized that wasn't true at all (neither my answer nor his). Enjoying "reading for reading's sake" would imply that I would still take enjoyment from reading something that I find extremely offensive; or something that I find boring, uninteresting, or even something horribly written; or that I get enjoyment from moving my eyes across any text I might encounter. I don't. I "enjoy" reading things I find enjoyable (which merely encompasses "fun" for me. It's not defined by it), fulfilling and/or enlightening. As does everyone who is reading something entirely voluntarily, I think (not that assigned reading can't be enjoyable too, but that's a different topic). The person who asked the question, for instance, primarily reads (or listens to) non-fiction. He knows that I primarily read fiction. The point is that both of us read on an entirely voluntary basis. No assigned reading for classes, certification, or work for either of us. We're reading things we both want to read. So I've discovered that whenever someone seeks to question/denigrate another's voluntary reading preferences—or seek to zealously defend their own—(whether it's fiction vs non-, or litfic vs genre), it's because they're striving to make their preferences seem less frivolous, or striving to make someone else's seem more so. But the fact of the matter is: all voluntary reading is entirely frivolous. Only the personal definitions of "fun" and "enjoyment" fluctuate. ** So what my family member should have asked me was, "you enjoy reading what you enjoy, don't you?" To which my response should have been, "Of course I do. So do you." As to the topic and the study, the only wrench I would throw into the works is that litfic has a penchant for cherry-picking the "best" genre works for inclusion in its own ranks. Which suggests to me that even though word-selection may play a part in how "seriously" a work is read, the label the work is ultimately given will play a big part as well. If we're told there's subtext or social commentary to glean from something, those who find that sort of thing interesting will look for it—regardless of the category/label or word-choice. ** I realize there is a small sampling of voluntary readers who "enjoy" torturing themselves with works that run entirely counter to their own nature/proclivities, but that doesn't really change my premise. It just proves that personal interpretations of "enjoyment" can vary wildly. Some people "enjoy" being miserable, too. Last edited by DiapDealer; 11-26-2017 at 10:04 AM. |
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11-26-2017, 12:42 PM | #54 |
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When I complained of the study author's poor writing, I was referring to his blog post. 'Way too many words, and he was too much in love with them.
As far as the study, I wish they had put a little more effort into the sample stories. Simply inserting militaristic and technological components in place of civilian and ordinary ones was lazy. Maybe if they had done the so-called SF one first, then modified it. Better yet, they could have used a different genre that required more careful alterations. (mystery, romance, intrigue, etc) I think their slapdash preparation makes their results less reliable. |
11-26-2017, 01:54 PM | #55 | |
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11-26-2017, 03:11 PM | #56 | |
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11-26-2017, 04:26 PM | #57 | |
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11-26-2017, 05:36 PM | #58 | ||
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Another G.K. Chesterton quote from Orthodoxy ... Quote:
Last edited by rcentros; 11-26-2017 at 06:32 PM. |
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11-26-2017, 06:53 PM | #59 |
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I thought that the mealy mouthed author was trying to say in his blogpost that his study showed that ordinary readers (or at least undergrads roped into another silly study) read science fiction less carefully then 'literary' fiction which proves that ordinary readers are prejudiced against science fiction.
Given the radically different interpretations I think we can agree that he needs to write more clearly. |
11-27-2017, 09:21 PM | #60 |
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I remember when I was in a college English lit class, we read a short story about a woman walking through a garden. I'm not going to remember any details here - it was too long ago. But I remember that I read the story at face value. It was a pretty story abut a garden. When it came time for the class to discuss the story, the professor told us the story was about a woman's sexual awakening, cloaked in metaphor or allegory. (Everything he assigned for reading ended up being about sex one way or another - so I left the class thinking the guy was a bit of a pervert, to be honest.)
But I can see a bunch of college kids reading a simple-seeming story labeled as "literary fiction" about a waitress and looking for the symbolism or metaphor or something "more" than "just a story about a waitress". Give them the same basic story but call it science fiction, and they probably figure "Whew, I can just enjoy the story and not have to work so hard!" I also agree with others here that have said part of the problem could be what they saw as the type of story (military SF). I like some science fiction, but military SF is not usually high on my favorites list. |
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