Kindle vs PRS 650 for PDF, worth the difference?

Falcao · 10-14-2010, 02:12 PM

After reading a lot of posts about this subject, it seems that the 650 has somewhat better support for PDF than the Kindle Wi-Fi. It's my understanding that both ereaders have zoom and pan of PDF files, but the 650 allows reflowing. I understand that if the file is not tagged then reflowing is useless. Also, I know the 650 is more expensive than the Kindle (225 vs 139 in USA).

So, I have two questions:

1. Am I right in that the only difference for PDF support is the reflowing thing?
2. That better PDF support is worth the price difference?

I don't care (for now) about reading epubs. And yes, I know a Kindle DXG is better for PDFs, but I can't justify expending $379 in a gadget (my wife would behead me

).

Icefeldt · 10-14-2010, 02:52 PM

yep.
thats the major advance (except the touch) of the 650 compared to the kindle.
I only read .pdfs and reflow is a must have!

viviena · 10-14-2010, 09:38 PM

It would depend on the type of PDFs, I suppose. For PDFs with complex layouts and lots of images, you'll probably want an ereader with a larger screen size anyway.

For novels and the like, reflow has become essential for me. I know some people have had bad luck with reading PDFs that don't reflow, and I can't speak to most 'homemade' PDFs, but all the PDFs I've checked out from my library -- okay, not that many, probably just twelve -- reflow correctly. Depending on the text size, I usually have one page full of text, the next page half-full, then repeat. This means that you sometimes see the PDF's header in the middle of the page, and it might be a distraction for you. I'm okay with this because I really hate panning otherwise.

A non-reflowed PDF v reflowed PDF. From what I understand, the Sony supports the forcing of reflow even if the PDF isn't tagged properly, resulting in the first example. For PDFs that are tagged to support reflow already, it's more like the second.

yacoob · 10-15-2010, 04:04 AM

FWIW: I haven't yet met a PDF file that would be unflowable. The results vary of course, reflow does horrors to things like python code

PRS-650 has one more convenient thing: page mode, that allows you to zoom in to a fixed size, and then use page buttons to move the zoomed in area by pages. There are modes for 2 and 3 columns text (useful for science papers and rpg manuals). I'm not sure whether K3 has this kind of feature.

mwheinz · 10-15-2010, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yacoob

FWIW: I haven't yet met a PDF file that would be unflowable. The results vary of course, reflow does horrors to things like python code

That depends primarily on how the PDF was made. For example, OS X has a built-in feature that lets you "print" to a PDF instead of an actual printer - but the resulting PDFs are really just pictures of the text, they can't reflow anymore than you could reflow an 8x11 picture of a flower.

elcreative · 10-15-2010, 10:01 AM

Not true... I use the print-to-PDF regularly and all such are fully editable in Acrobat or any other third party editor, even URL links remain active, only pictures are pictures using this method... you are right about other non-OCRd PDFs where the pages are an assembly of unprocessed scans which, as you say, can't be reflowed...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwheinz

That depends primarily on how the PDF was made. For example, OS X has a built-in feature that lets you "print" to a PDF instead of an actual printer - but the resulting PDFs are really just pictures of the text, they can't reflow anymore than you could reflow an 8x11 picture of a flower.

mwheinz · 10-15-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcreative

Not true... I use the print-to-PDF regularly and all such are fully editable in Acrobat or any other third party editor

Huh. I guess it depends on your print options. I tried it with one PDF I had made previously, and it did not reflow, but I tried again with a new PDF printout of a program listing and it did.

yacoob · 10-15-2010, 03:25 PM

mwheinz, I don't know what you've been using, but I've been saving to PDFs from OSX 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, with default options, and I had no problems with reflowing those under 505, and now on 650. I had some PDFs with scans of really old RPG manuals that consisted of page-big pictures - and yes, those were unflowable on 505. Haven't yet tried them on 650 with zoom or 2/3 column modes.

Falcao · 10-16-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viviena

It would depend on the type of PDFs, I suppose. For PDFs with complex layouts and lots of images, you'll probably want an ereader with a larger screen size anyway.

The PDFs I read are academic papers. Some of them have images and/or tables but other are mostly text.

Judging by the poll it seems that the 650 does a better job than kindle.

901hw · 10-16-2010, 12:32 PM

An additional feature of the sony is not only the reflow but also the zoom on the kindle only works in 3 steps while the sony has a stepless zoom function. It also has extra functions like one which cuts off the margins, a function cutting a page into four parts or 6 parts which is especially good for texts with two columns and a few more extras. I actually had a kindle 3G which I sent back to get the sony. It was absolutely worth it. The touchscreen is also a huge advantage.

silentbob · 10-16-2010, 10:06 PM

Does the new 650 annotate/highlight/etc within pdf files themselves? Or is that just for epubs or other 'ebooks'?

hopkinsenglish · 10-17-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentbob

Does the new 650 annotate/highlight/etc within pdf files themselves? Or is that just for epubs or other 'ebooks'?

As long as the .PDF isn't locked (some .PDFs have security rights that prohibit readers from printing them) you can perform the annotations (highlighting and writing). I've had a much better experience with single column .PDFs, however.

Falcao · 10-18-2010, 12:36 PM

Maybe that is what make the price difference worth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 901hw

An additional feature of the sony is not only the reflow but also the zoom on the kindle only works in 3 steps while the sony has a stepless zoom function. It also has extra functions like one which cuts off the margins, a function cutting a page into four parts or 6 parts which is especially good for texts with two columns and a few more extras. I actually had a kindle 3G which I sent back to get the sony. It was absolutely worth it. The touchscreen is also a huge advantage.

View Poll Results: Worth the difference?
Yes	23	63.89%
No	5	13.89%
I don't know	8	22.22%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

10-14-2010, 02:12 PM	#1
Falcao Banned Posts: 1,344 Karma: 1028477047 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Nueva Andalucía Device: Sony PRS 650	Kindle vs PRS 650 for PDF, worth the difference? After reading a lot of posts about this subject, it seems that the 650 has somewhat better support for PDF than the Kindle Wi-Fi. It's my understanding that both ereaders have zoom and pan of PDF files, but the 650 allows reflowing. I understand that if the file is not tagged then reflowing is useless. Also, I know the 650 is more expensive than the Kindle (225 vs 139 in USA). So, I have two questions: 1. Am I right in that the only difference for PDF support is the reflowing thing? 2. That better PDF support is worth the price difference? I don't care (for now) about reading epubs. And yes, I know a Kindle DXG is better for PDFs, but I can't justify expending $379 in a gadget (my wife would behead me ).

10-14-2010, 09:38 PM	#3
viviena Evangelist Posts: 412 Karma: 520610 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canberra, Australia Device: Currently Kobo Clara HD and Aura One, iPad	It would depend on the type of PDFs, I suppose. For PDFs with complex layouts and lots of images, you'll probably want an ereader with a larger screen size anyway. For novels and the like, reflow has become essential for me. I know some people have had bad luck with reading PDFs that don't reflow, and I can't speak to most 'homemade' PDFs, but all the PDFs I've checked out from my library -- okay, not that many, probably just twelve -- reflow correctly. Depending on the text size, I usually have one page full of text, the next page half-full, then repeat. This means that you sometimes see the PDF's header in the middle of the page, and it might be a distraction for you. I'm okay with this because I really hate panning otherwise. A non-reflowed PDF v reflowed PDF. From what I understand, the Sony supports the forcing of reflow even if the PDF isn't tagged properly, resulting in the first example. For PDFs that are tagged to support reflow already, it's more like the second. Last edited by viviena; 10-14-2010 at 09:45 PM. Reason: clarification

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10-14-2010, 02:52 PM	#2
Icefeldt Enthusiast Posts: 40 Karma: 98 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: Sony PRS-650	yep. thats the major advance (except the touch) of the 650 compared to the kindle. I only read .pdfs and reflow is a must have!

10-15-2010, 04:04 AM	#4
yacoob Zealot Posts: 120 Karma: 1326 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: none	FWIW: I haven't yet met a PDF file that would be unflowable. The results vary of course, reflow does horrors to things like python code PRS-650 has one more convenient thing: page mode, that allows you to zoom in to a fixed size, and then use page buttons to move the zoomed in area by pages. There are modes for 2 and 3 columns text (useful for science papers and rpg manuals). I'm not sure whether K3 has this kind of feature.

10-15-2010, 03:25 PM	#8
yacoob Zealot Posts: 120 Karma: 1326 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: none	mwheinz, I don't know what you've been using, but I've been saving to PDFs from OSX 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, with default options, and I had no problems with reflowing those under 505, and now on 650. I had some PDFs with scans of really old RPG manuals that consisted of page-big pictures - and yes, those were unflowable on 505. Haven't yet tried them on 650 with zoom or 2/3 column modes.

10-16-2010, 12:32 PM	#10
901hw Connoisseur Posts: 54 Karma: 2178 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: germany Device: Trekstor Pyrus Mini, PB Touch Lux 2, Onxy Boox C67ML (maybe))	An additional feature of the sony is not only the reflow but also the zoom on the kindle only works in 3 steps while the sony has a stepless zoom function. It also has extra functions like one which cuts off the margins, a function cutting a page into four parts or 6 parts which is especially good for texts with two columns and a few more extras. I actually had a kindle 3G which I sent back to get the sony. It was absolutely worth it. The touchscreen is also a huge advantage.

10-16-2010, 10:06 PM	#11
silentbob Junior Member Posts: 1 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: none	Does the new 650 annotate/highlight/etc within pdf files themselves? Or is that just for epubs or other 'ebooks'?