Amazon Sidewalk to go Live on 08 Jun

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

Which is as it should be. Opt-out is not "a little sleazy", it's VERY sleazy, indefensible and should be automatically illegal. ANY data-gathering ploy like this is should only be allowed as opt-in. It's very hard for anyone to claim they're supporting users' freedom of choice if they defend a program that does not actually give users the choice to use it, but instead forces them to actively choose not to.

Illegal?!? One needs to a get a bit of grip, here.

1) Sidewalk is not a data gathering ploy. Had you read the security whitepaper, you'd know this. And...

2) Illegal!?! C'mon. If a new feature being introduced as opt-out were illegal, most tech companies in existence would be fined every other day.

The irony here is that Sidewalk probably represents the first thing Amazon have done in a long, long while that ISN'T about data harvesting.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The irony here is that Sidewalk probably represents the first thing Amazon have done on a long, long while that ISN'T about data harvesting.

Sharing information with 3rd party developers doesn't bother you since it is after all not data harvesting. Given the current state of AWS security (see TeamTNT Actively Enumerating Cloud Environments to Infiltrate Organizations for a bit of paranoia inducing information), I'm not sure if I would put Amazon and security in the same sentence with a straight face.

[DiapDealer]

I'm not sure if I would put AWS security up as an example of how Sidewalk is somehow about data harvesting. But if you want to deflect and conflate, have it. Wouldn't want to get in the way of a good "Amazon is the devil" rant.

And please share a link that documents where/how the contents of the data passing through the end-to-end encrypted Sidewalk mesh is being shared with 3rd-party developers.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by rcentros

The easy solution is to stay away from Amazon's spy gadgets altogether — unless this "Sidewalk" privacy invasion can also access non-Amazon products.

Not so easy as that.

Do you have a smartphone that can run apps? A tablet? Do you allow either to connect to your primary LAN (via WiFi typically)?

Hmmm. You're probably not as secure as you may have thought.

[Catlady]

From WaPo's technology columnist Geoffrey A. Fowler:

Sidewalk raises more red flags than a marching band parade: Is it secure enough to be activated in so many homes? Are we helping Amazon build a vast network that can be used for more surveillance? And why didn’t Amazon ask us to opt-in before activating a capability lying dormant in our devices?

Sidewalk could massively increase the reach of Amazon’s thriving but controversial Ring security business, which police forces tapped for more than 20,000 requests for footage in 2020. Sidewalk would allow people and organizations to put Ring devices in places that weren’t possible before.

“It is slowly eliminating the notion of ‘off-the-grid,’ ” says Matthew Guariglia, a policy analyst at the tech-liberties-focused Electronic Frontier Foundation. Even though Amazon is a private company, that doesn’t mean the surveillance tech it sells can’t be dangerous.

“As long as Amazon is storing all that data … all of that can be accessible to police. It’s impossible to think of things as just private or public surveillance anymore.”

[John F]

I disabled sidewalk when it hit the news a while back, and having just checked, it is still disabled.

[DiapDealer]

In my opinion, Sidewalk introduces no security/privacy vulnerabilities people didn't already embrace just by owning/using Ring and Echo devices in the first place. Opting out of Sidewalk is akin to (security-wise) putting a piece of tape over your laptop's camera lens and thinking you've accomplished something. If someone can control your camera, they already have enough access to your computer to wreak way more havoc than spying on you while you're in front of your computer.

I have no problem with control freaks wanting total control over what/who is able to use their internet connection. And if you want to punish Amazon just for making Sidewalk opt-out, have at it. That's one thing. But security/privacy?? You gave that up long before the ability to opt out of Sidewalk was ever added to your Alexa app. That ship sailed when you set up your first Echo/Ring devices and connected them to your Amazon account.

If you feel you need to pointlessly punish Amazon, then you need to get rid of the smart devices that Sidewalk will use. Because whether or not you choose to embrace Sidewalk, those devices will still be harvesting data about you and yours. Just like they always have. The tiny amounts of data being streamed by IoT devices using those devices as an anonymous internet connection (through Sidewalk's encrypted tunnel) is the very least of your worries.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

And please share a link that documents where/how the contents of the data passing through the end-to-end encrypted Sidewalk mesh is being shared with 3rd-party developers.

The comment was from an article in Wired and mentioned that "The company has also said it might share Sidewalk data with third-party developers further down the line,". Perhaps last two items from the Amazon Sidewalk privacy and security whitepaper (#10, #11)? Whatever your level of trust in Amazon might be, are you willing to extend that level of trust to third parties? Have you looked at the current state of security in the IoT field?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by DNSB

"The company has also said it might share Sidewalk data with third-party developers further down the line"

Sidewalk data <> personal info.

Originally Posted by DNSB

Whatever your level of trust in Amazon might be, are you willing to extend that level of trust to third parties?

Third-parties whose hardware/apps I will be able vet before needing to invest any of my trust in them? Sure.

Originally Posted by DNSB

Have you looked at the current state of security in the IoT field?

You betcha. I'm heavily invested in IoT in my home (both homegrown and commercial). I'm smelling a hot soldering-iron right now. I have no concerns. Besides, the end-end encryption of devices/apps using Sidewalk would actually go a long ways toward increasing IoT security.

[jhowell]

I think that the FUD about the risks of enabling Sidewalk are overblown. Your Wi-Fi router is likely to be a greater security risk.

The real problem is the way it is being provisioned. I think Amazon made a mistake by having Sidewalk be an opt-out feature of their devices. That is just sleazy and adds to the paranoia over it. It will probably hurt them financially in lost future sales of Echo and Ring devices.

Instead they should have made it opt in with some benefit attached, such as a small discount on Prime membership, to offset the slight potential liability of enabling it. They obviously plan to make money off of sidewalk and should be passing some of the income it generates along to those who will actually be providing most of the infrastructure to support it.

[haertig]

I do not understand how anyone could be OK with Amazon just taking part of your bandwidth for their own purposes. I don't care how little it may be, or how you probably wouldn't even notice. They are taking something that you are paying for without your express permission. This is theft of services.

How anybody can think that is right and advocate for it is beyond me. Yeah, there may be privacy and security concerns as well, but the whole thing is based on the initial theft of your bandwidth. That is not free, you are paying for it. And Amazon is taking it without your consent. Without even asking for your consent.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by haertig

I do not understand how anyone could be OK with Amazon just taking part of your bandwidth for their own purposes. I don't care how little it may be, or how you probably wouldn't even notice. They are taking something that you are paying for without your express permission. This is theft of services.

I've given them my express permission by not disabling it. Anybody who cares, and who hasn't disabled it yet, is either OK with it, or clearly living under a rock (with no Echo/Ring devices). The hue and cry has been prolific and pervasive. And it's not just "for their own purposes". I, and my neighbors who leave it on benefit. Sure, making it opt-out is a bit sleazy. So turn it off and move on.

The bottom line for me is: if you don't trust Amazon where privacy and security are concerned, then you have no business having Amazon hardware connected to your network in the first place.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I've given them my express permission by not disabling it. Anybody who cares, and who hasn't disabled it yet, is either OK with it, or clearly living under a rock (with no Echo/Ring devices). The hue and cry has been prolific and pervasive. And it's not just "for their own purposes". I, and my neighbors who leave it on benefit. Sure, making it opt-out is a bit sleazy. So turn it off and move on.

The bottom line for me is: if you don't trust Amazon where privacy and security are concerned, then you have no business having Amazon hardware connected to your network in the first place.

Really? You give "express permission by not disabling it"? That's absurd. And just because YOU know about Sidewalk, you shouldn't assume everyone else who's purchased an Echo device, or who will purchase an Echo device in the future, or who's gotten one as a gift, somehow knows all about Sidewalk.

Your mindset seems to be that since Amazon already collects so much information, what's a little bit more? And a little bit more. And then some more--no limits. Yeah, I give Amazon a lot of information and I get value from it. But Sidewalk? I see no benefit to me, and a lot to Amazon. Automatic opt-in is better for Amazon, or they wouldn't have set it up the way they did; they are counting on people not knowing about it and not bothering to disable it.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Really? You give "express permission by not disabling it"? That's absurd.

Not absurd at all. To you maybe, but then you're not everyone. *shrug*

Originally Posted by Catlady

And just because YOU know about Sidewalk, you shouldn't assume everyone else who's purchased an Echo device, or who will purchase an Echo device in the future, or who's gotten one as a gift, somehow knows all about Sidewalk.

Why not? You did. I did. Everybody in this thread did. Anybody with an ear heard the media blitz about the June 8 start date. Anybody who owns Amazon hardware who hasn't heard about Sidewalk going live (and the cries to disable it) is living under a rock.

Originally Posted by Catlady

Your mindset seems to be that since Amazon already collects so much information, what's a little bit more? And a little bit more.

Nope. Not at all. That's where all the FUD comes into play. People are so up in arms about nothing that they don't realize that Sidewalk isn't about data collection or storage. So no, I'm not saying "what's a little bit more." Not at all. Because using Sidewalk isn't giving Amazon any more info about me.

Disable Sidewalk if you want. I don't care. Just stop pretending doing so is closing up some sort of massive privacy/security breach.

[Deskisamess]

My puny little hometown newspaper ran an article about it in today's paper. Got Facebook folks all stirred up about it.