Harvard Classics - Mobipocket - Plucker - single zip

[pruss]

Here's a single zip of all the HC volumes by RWood in Mobipocket format:

http://www.wikifortio.com/604947/HC-Mobi-Fixed.zip

And here is a single zip of all the HC volumes by RWood in Plucker format, converted from RWood's Mobipocket versions:

http://www.wikifortio.com/381815/HC-Plucker.zip

Unfortunately these links will expire in about 98 days. I don't know if there is a way to find more permanent hosting.

I'd like thank RWood for his kind permission to post these, and apologize for not having asked it at first.

[RWood]

It is listed as ~36 Megs in size yet it also reports "404 Not Found"

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by pruss

Here's a single zip of all the HC volumes by RWood in mobipocket format:

Unfortunately this link will expire in 99 days. If someone can find more permanent hosting, please do. I will post Plucker and html versions shortly.

When you do these conversions, are you able to keep all the formatting and all the styles? If not, please don't ruin these classics by doing a half-assed conversion. And don't do Plucker. I hate that format. I think the software for dealing with Plucker is utter garbage overall.

[pruss]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

When you do these conversions, are you able to keep all the formatting and all the styles?

Almost all, and then some. The Mobipocket ones are unchanged, only renamed to reflect the content more clearly. The Plucker ones are the result of converting Mobipocket to HTML, and then running the standard Python-based Plucker converter. In the HTML conversion all tags are kept except for MBP: pagebreak (Plucker is browser-styled, so the concept of a page is non-existent). Moreover, the conversion script inserts additional hyperlinks between the table of contents and the body for some (not all, alas, as the formatting in the Mobipocket files was not fully consistent) of the volumes. The Plucker converter then keeps most of the HTML tags--there will always be a few minor differences, and of course there might well be a bug somewhere in my conversion routines (e.g., an encoding problem wouldn't surprise me).

And don't do Plucker. I hate that format. I think the software for dealing with Plucker is utter garbage overall.

What's wrong with Plucker? I have hundreds of mb of Plucker e-texts, in large part because of its search capabilities and customizability. (I am on the Plucker development team.) As far as I know, it's one of the very few--if there are any others--Palm ebook readers that lets you have fully styled text with antialiased fonts (italics in other readers tend to look terrible).

[pruss]

The Plucker version is at:
http://www.wikifortio.com/381815/HC-Plucker.zip

[pruss]

As per request, I am removing the html link.

[HarryT]

Pruss,

One of the reason we discourage people from posting books in formats such as HTML is that there are a great many "ethically-challenged" people out there who look for any source of nicely formatted books that they can re-sell to make a fast buck. We don't want them to benefit from the hard work that we put in to create nice books here, and we especially don't want people to be able to download books that were created for this site from elsewhere.

Please, therefore, remove these other versions that you have posted without RWood's permission.

[igorsk]

Harry, you're using the same logic as the industry with the DRM: "we're putting these protections because all the nasty thieves out there would steal our hard work otherwise". The problem is, the DRM doesn't stop the determined people at all (they just use analog hole for music or scan/OCR for books) but it gives major headaches to legit users who just want to enjoy their content in the ways they want. The same is true here: removing the HTML files won't stop people from doing the same thing pruss did, but it will be a major hassle for many people, who never intended to "re-sell them to make a fast buck". (BTW, who are those "ethically-challenged people"? I keep hearing about them but I'm not sure I saw any examples. Do you happen to mean Silk Pagoda?)
Of course, posting these without RWood's prior pemission might be not very polite, but these books are public domain after all, so it's not illegal. However, I wish RWood himself posted original html0 files, which are as closest to "master copies" as we can get. Also, I think, it would be worth to produce html versions for Project Gutenberg as it's the main source of public domain books, and this collection would be a worthy addition.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by igorsk

BTW, who are those "ethically-challenged people"? I keep hearing about them but I'm not sure I saw any examples. Do you happen to mean Silk Pagoda?

Heavens no, certainly not sites like SP - they do a great job, and the extremely reasonable charge for their DVDs do no more than cover costs. No, the sites I'm referring to are the numerous sites who are re-selling PG classics, etc. as individual downloads for a few $ each. I'm not going to name any - they are numerous. We are making their life a lot easier by providing them with nicely-formatted books to "acquire" and re-sell. It's not illegal, but why should other people profit from the work that we do here?

The reason we started the "Book Uploads" section on this site was as a means of encouraging people to visit MobileRead, and a benefit for our members, not as a source of material for other people to profit from.

[JSWolf]

The issue is that RWood put in a lot of work andI think he has the copyright on theose edition he's posted. So, if you take them and convert them to some other format without his permission, you probably are breaking copyright.

And besides, if he wanted them out there in plucker or HTML, he's have released them that way.

pruss, would you like to see your hard work gets screwed over by someone who had no care at all for the work?

[pruss]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The issue is that RWood put in a lot of work andI think he has the copyright on theose edition he's posted.

He certainly has put in a lot of hard work, which I am grateful for. Whether he has the copyright on these editions is not completely clear, because it is not clear that layout and formatting of a public domain text is copyrightable in the US. IANAL.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by pruss

He certainly has put in a lot of hard work, which I am grateful for. Whether he has the copyright on these editions is not completely clear, because it is not clear that layout and formatting of a public domain text is copyrightable in the US. IANAL.

Just think of it as a work of classical music. You can copyright the specific performance, but not the music. So while I'm allowed to have the sheet music to the work, I cannot steal a specific performace. So if the BSO were to record beethoven's 9th, I can't steal the recording even if I have a copy of the sheet music. This is the same situation. You can have the text for the work, but you cannot steal the specific versions. Transforming the Mobi version is violating copyright unless you get permission to do so.

[pruss]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Just think of it as a work of classical music. You can copyright the specific performance, but not the music. So while I'm allowed to have the sheet music to the work, I cannot steal a specific performace. So if the BSO were to record beethoven's 9th, I can't steal the recording even if I have a copy of the sheet music. This is the same situation. You can have the text for the work, but you cannot steal the specific versions. Transforming the Mobi version is violating copyright unless you get permission to do so.

I think it's an open question legally to what extent layout is copyrightable. (A performance is a different matter--it is a creative work of interpretation.) In regard to computer software, the US Copyright Office says: "Copyright protection is not available for ideas, program logic, algorithms, systems, methods, concepts, or LAYOUTS" (my emphasis).

The Copyright Office also says: "Occasionally, the Office still receives an application to register white pages telephone directories. In 1991, Southwestern Bell submitted a claim for copyright registration in certain features of the St. Louis White Pages. The company claimed that the work was copyrightable either as a compilation or as a graphic work. The latter claim was based on the typeface and layout of the page, which included various “user-friendly” features. When the Copyright Office denied registration, Southwestern sued under the Administrative Procedures Act.(114) The court affirmed the Copyright Office’s denial of registration, finding no abuse of discretion.(115)"

The situation of public domain ebook formatting does not seem very different to me from the situation of the formatting of a telephone book. There is some creative choice that goes into both, but if the formatting of a telephone book is insufficient for copyright, the formatting of a public domain ebook also should be insufficient for copyright.

This is an important issue. We shouldn't want publishers to be able to prevent us from photocopying a reprint of a public domain book just by reprinting it in a different font on different page sizes.

All that said, the issue does seem to be up in the air legally, despite what the copyright office says. For instance, one court did say: "None of the individual elements of the Reader’s Digest cover—ordinary lines, typefaces, and colors—qualifies for copyright protection. But the distinctive layout of those elements is entitled to protection as a graphic work". For more information: http://williampatry.blogspot.com/200...ut-claims.html

Anyway, since the issue is up in the air, I will defer to RWood's desires, when I hear from him.

[pruss]

I've heard from RWood, and he very kindly said:
Mobipocket - yes
Plucker - yes
HTML - no

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by pruss

I've heard from RWood, and he very kindly said:
Mobipocket - yes
Plucker - yes
HTML - no

How well is the formatting of the Mobi books kept when you convert to Plucker?

As for your dpwnload expiring in 98 days, I think that's plenty of time for the current users to download the files. New users after that can just get them one at a time like I am doing for the LRF versions.