I thought expired library books stayed unless...

[wxgeek96]

I guess it is actually several things. Wi-fi off, don't close the book, don't connect to computer -- here is a discussion on another forum:

http://nooktalk.net/discussion-forum...at-expire.html

I have found that even with the book still open, when wi-fi is on, the auto-syncing (Maybe the automatic clock sync triggers a recheck on expiration dates??) will expire the book whether I have it open already or not.

[RAH]

I think Asa is correct. At least in my experience. The Nook handles the DRM itself without any help or interaction with ADE.

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by RAH

Yes, I would think so. I doubt if a particular epub file fills itself with garbage just because it expired. Anyone actually try this?

Yes. It works.

[Meemo]

Originally Posted by lorraineg57

I thought expired books stayed on the nook unless you hooked up to ADE (where they would then register as expired?). I could swear I read that somewhere!

Glad I stayed up 'til 1 a.m. finishing this book last night because when I turned the nook on this afternoon, the book was expired!

Actually they did work that way until very recently. I've kept Overdrive library books on my nook past their expiration date as long as I didn't connect to the computer, turn on wireless, or leave the book. But apparently they've made a change in the coding on the books so that they now recognize their expiration date without any "prompting".

It was also possible to hang on to the ACSM file on your computer until you were ready to read the book, and then open it with ADE and that started the clock on the book itself - apparently that's no longer possible either. I'm guessing this is just another matter of making digital library books as inconvenient as possible for the reader (driven by the publishers).

[Asawi]

Originally Posted by Meemo

I'm guessing this is just another matter of making digital library books as inconvenient as possible for the reader

That's kind of unfair isn't it? I'd say it's making (relatively) sure the people that borrow the books follow the rules they agree to follow. Meaning if you agree to a 21 day lending period, why should you expect access after those 21 days have passed?

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Asawi

That's kind of unfair isn't it? I'd say it's making (relatively) sure the people that borrow the books follow the rules they agree to follow. Meaning if you agree to a 21 day lending period, why should you expect access after those 21 days have passed?

I think it's considered frustrating because it's a departure from the "usual" method of library lending. With paper books, you can usually renew for a few days more if you haven't finished or at the very least pay a late fee. With eBooks, the file just evaporates and if you need a few more days, you have to check it out again... sometimes after 30+ other people get their chance at 21 days a pop. Conceivably, it could be a year or more before you can finish your library book (unless you plunk down for the full price, obvs).

I can why that would be frustrating. Not sure how to fix it given the tech involved, but it's not as simple as people Complaining About Rules They Don't Like.

[janjanjan]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I can why that would be frustrating. Not sure how to fix it given the tech involved, but it's not as simple as people Complaining About Rules They Don't Like.

If you check out a hard copy book, and there is a waiting list for it, you can't renew it. You can, obviously, keep the book beyond the due date even then, but you'll pay a fine. Because libraries don't want to invest unnecessarily in a system to collect fines on ebooks, they simply make them unreadable at expiration. It is the the rule that you agreed to.

To me, the great part about ebooks is that I can return them with a click of my mouse. Great convenience, saving me time and effort to return a hard copy of a book.

[RAH]

Originally Posted by janjanjan

To me, the great part about ebooks is that I can return them with a click of my mouse. Great convenience, saving me time and effort to return a hard copy of a book.

Is there really a mechanism for "returning" a borrowed library ebook? I always just let it expire and figured that I didn't have to do anything. I mean, they let you have it for 2 weeks and that's that. Or is there some way to actually return it early so someone else can have it sooner?

[lorraineg57]

Originally Posted by RAH

Is there really a mechanism for "returning" a borrowed library ebook? I always just let it expire and figured that I didn't have to do anything. I mean, they let you have it for 2 weeks and that's that. Or is there some way to actually return it early so someone else can have it sooner?

In ADE you just drop down the menu to the left of the book cover (library view) and click on return book.

[Joykins]

Yes, I usually return early so other people can read the books and I can get new ones!

[lorraineg57]

Originally Posted by janjanjan

If you check out a hard copy book, and there is a waiting list for it, you can't renew it. You can, obviously, keep the book beyond the due date even then, but you'll pay a fine. Because libraries don't want to invest unnecessarily in a system to collect fines on ebooks, they simply make them unreadable at expiration. It is the the rule that you agreed to.

To me, the great part about ebooks is that I can return them with a click of my mouse. Great convenience, saving me time and effort to return a hard copy of a book.

I've never had my library (local) refuse a renewal. So either I read books no one else likes or they don't have that rule. I'm actually able to renew my library books online with a mouse click.

I honestly wouldn't mind paying an overdue fee as long as it wasn't outrageous in order to keep a book to finish it, I've done it at my local library if I forget to renew in time.

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by lorraineg57

I've never had my library (local) refuse a renewal. So either I read books no one else likes or they don't have that rule. I'm actually able to renew my library books online with a mouse click.

Doesn't happen everytime, but at our library you can only renew a book twice and you can't renew it if there are holds on it. So sometimes my attempts to renew by mouse click are foiled and I have to take the physical books in whether I am finished or not.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by lorraineg57

I've never had my library (local) refuse a renewal. So either I read books no one else likes or they don't have that rule. I'm actually able to renew my library books online with a mouse click.

I honestly wouldn't mind paying an overdue fee as long as it wasn't outrageous in order to keep a book to finish it, I've done it at my local library if I forget to renew in time.

Agreed - my library has a renew online option that is quite convenient. It is true in my local case that if someone has a hold on the book, then the renewal can be denied, but very few people bother to put holds on the books unless they're brand spanking new. The ebooks, on the other hand, are almost perpetually on hold because some people seem to prefer that to Wish List management.

Because libraries don't want to invest unnecessarily in a system to collect fines on ebooks, they simply make them unreadable at expiration. It is the the rule that you agreed to.

Sure, of course it's the rule we agree to - I'm not arguing that. I love ebooks and I love elibrary lending, and I don't think the current system is broken by any means. It's just that I do bristle a little when the "oh shucks, I couldn't finish my book in time" discussions devolve into accusations that merely being annoyed at a little inconvenience is tantamount to being an anarchist pirate who doesn't respect contract law.

[RAH]

Originally Posted by lorraineg57

In ADE you just drop down the menu to the left of the book cover (library view) and click on return book.

Thanks for the info, Lorraine. Sometimes I'll get a book and not like it, so I can see myself doing this occasionally.

[Meemo]

Originally Posted by Asawi

That's kind of unfair isn't it? I'd say it's making (relatively) sure the people that borrow the books follow the rules they agree to follow. Meaning if you agree to a 21 day lending period, why should you expect access after those 21 days have passed?

Short, whiny answer - because we had it before.

Yes, it was a nice surprise to find that I could squeeze an extra couple of hrs out to finish Fall of Giants (that's the only book I can remember needing a bit of extra time to finish) and yes, it would've been annoying to have gone back on a long waiting list to have to finish it. So yes, it's a bit of a rude awakening for folks to find that things that used to happen don't any more. Although in my case I'm usually returning books before their due date. And in truth, it's not a very consistent policy since audio books (apparently) don't really expire after their due dates.

I didn't make that comment about publishers making digital books inconvenient in a vacuum though - I was just adding it to the lengthening list of things they appear to do to try to make them less convenient/appealing, like pulling more and more eBooks from their "Lendable" list on Amazon/B&N; limiting the # of times a digital book can be checked out from Overdrive - which wouldn't be so bad if they'd set a more reasonable limit; setting higher prices for eBooks than the paper editions; some publishers not putting their eBooks on Overdrive at all; etc, etc.