Would you delete a copy of the Koran?

[AprilHare]

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

I have trouble picturing a situation where someone would know that you had a Koran on your reader and deleted it, and feel offended by it. But of course if you don't want to read it in the first place, it's simpler not to put in on your reader or your hard drive.

I don't want to know of a situation. It sounds somehow possible yet extremely awkward and troubling.

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

I have several books on my reader I feel mildly ashamed for reading, or that might lead to misconceptions about my beliefs. I would not choose these books to demonstrate my reader, but I wouldn't hide the fact that they are there. I have created folders, one is called "religion" and has the Bible and other texts in it (not the Koran I think but it may end up there at some point, though I don't really plan on reading it). Another is called "romance" and has all the trashy stuff, and some not trashy at all but still romance. If someone wants to see my reader, I will just navigate to another folder and a book I'm not reading (don't want to lose my place), and show it to them.

The problem is, people tend to go where you don't want them to go when you lend them your liseuse - and theres no way to lock them out, or effectively shepherd them.

[ChrisR1970]

I have read 5 different translations of the Qur'an; the freely available here that has the three translations side by side, the Maulana Muhammad Ali translation, and the Rodwell translation. The Rodwell translation is bad, the Yusuf Ali translation is the one most recommended my Muslims that I know and is the one I found easy to read. To me it reads like an instruction manual, I don't understand all the claims about its poetic nature, I just don't see it in the English translations. I collect the "holy texts" from all the major religions, I think they are an important part of any well rounded education in that they help you understand what influences other peoples thought.

The Qur'an is like the Bible; its one of the most read books, yet the least examined. My belief about religion is Agnostic or Athiest, call it what you will I do not "believe". I have collected very beautiful leather bound editions of the Tanakh, the Qur'an, and the Septuagint, as well as many various english translations of the bible. Actually reading these texts and examining them for many years is what led to my agnostic or atheist belief. Most Atheist I know say it was actually reading the Bible that led them to their decision also.

So, I actually recomend people read and examine them, ignorance about whats in them is the cause of most of the irrational fears about them. Regardless if you believe them or not, they are important texts from a historical perspective that have influenced the behavior of millions over the centuries.

[FlorenceArt]

Originally Posted by AprilHare

The problem is, people tend to go where you don't want them to go when you lend them your liseuse - and theres no way to lock them out, or effectively shepherd them.

Well yes, as I said I am not trying to hide what I am reading (or just carry around). I find it a bit troubling that you would feel this is necessary, since presumably you live in a democracy, like me, but it's up to you. As I said, you'll be safest simply not putting it on any of your devices if that's how you feel.

[sigma8]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Sometimes I feel like giving it a go - but then I think the only reason I'd read the Koran, rather than any other religious text, is because of the atrocities carried out by its fundamentalist adherents; and I wouldn't want to feel they'd manipulated my reading habits by their actions.

Of all muslims who might give a hoot if you read the Koran, the ones who decided to become terrorists are the ones who will care the least. They only want their enemies to be dead...they're not trying to buy the world a coke. The muslims who would care are the ones who actually care about other people and what they think, i.e. the "good guys".

Also..."islamic fundamentalist" is the worst label for a terrorist ever. Committing atrocities is not fundamental to any mainstream religion. They should simply be called terrorists. If Islam was about terrorism, then why weren't muslims historically terrorist? Why did it take over 1000 years for that "fundamental" to crop up? Religion isn't the problem or the cause of terrorism, politics and socio-economic problems are.

As for deleting the Koran? I might, but probably not...unless I was honest to goodness running out of space, but how often is that an issue these days? I generally keep all the books I find, even ones that I doubt I'll ever read. I'm a bad enough packrat in the physical world....I'm a like a packtyrannosaurus rex in the digital world! (not sure how that one works...maybe t-rexes pack things in their bellies?)

[Arthursbedtime]

I would not have a problem deleting the Koran. But it would only be if I fould a better english translation. Right now I have the Asad translation.

Yes. read its message with your heart.
I am a Baha'i.

[JimKal]

Originally Posted by sigma8

Also..."islamic fundamentalist" is the worst label for a terrorist ever. Committing atrocities is not fundamental to any mainstream religion. They should simply be called terrorists. If Islam was about terrorism, then why weren't muslims historically terrorist? Why did it take over 1000 years for that "fundamental" to crop up? Religion isn't the problem or the cause of terrorism, politics and socio-economic problems are.

You've made a great point. It is important to separate the acts carried out by individuals from some larger group with whom they have a tenuous connection. In this case it would be individuals willing to indiscriminately kill others from the wider Islamic community. Many religions have fundamentalist elements but I would argue that the fundamentalists are a subset of the whole, sometimes a very small subset. I also believe that those willing to commit acts of terror are an even smaller subset. This applies to other religions as well as Islam. We have seen some Christian fundamentalists willing to murder physicians and bomb abortion clinics but I would not condemn all fundamentalist Christians based on the acts of the few. I think your last sentence above has much to commend it but sometimes the grip of a bad idea (in this case, the certitude that a God approves of a despicable act) is the problem. People have and will make choices that go against their political and socioeconomic interest when consumed by religious fever.

[astra]

Originally Posted by Arthursbedtime

Yes. read its message with your heart.
I am a Baha'i.

I visited Baha'i's Temple in Haifa last April

[alecE]

Well I don't have a problem with deleting a copy of anything from my liseuse. But I'd *never* want to get into book-burning - that's a deliberately inflammatory (sorry!) message, designed to give offence - in my book that's bad manners.

[In order to provide perspective: I was brought up high C of E, am now an atheist. This may be conflicting for the pope - boo to atheists, three cheers for one less Anglican :-) ]

[mike_bike_kite]

The idiot pastor in the US appeared to be just wanting to get himself noticed but I'm unsure what the purpose of this discussion is for. Personally I wouldn't give a moments thought to deleting a bible or a qur'an but then the chances of me having either on my device is minimal. I do find it fascinating that people in seemingly educated countries still believe in such things let alone quarrel regards who's fiction is the more accurate.

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by alecE

Well I don't have a problem with deleting a copy of anything from my liseuse. But I'd *never* want to get into book-burning - that's a deliberately inflammatory (sorry!) message, designed to give offence - in my book that's bad manners.

Only apologising for one of your puns?

[In order to provide perspective: I was brought up high C of E, am now an atheist. This may be conflicting for the pope - boo to atheists, three cheers for one less Anglican :-) ]

And that's the first time I even knew such a thing as High CofE existed (I'm going to guess it refers to observance or formality or somesuch, rather than either being celebrated between lunch and dinner; or as a result of smoking (or otherwise ingesting) various substances)

[basschick]

i would delete it if i read it - or at least started it - and was sure i wouldn't want to read it again. i didn't vote yes or no since i would only delete it if it didn't interest me.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

...And that's the first time I even knew such a thing as High CofE existed (I'm going to guess it refers to observance or formality or somesuch, rather than either being celebrated between lunch and dinner; or as a result of smoking (or otherwise ingesting) various substances)

He's referring to the High Church of England, Am -- the Anglo-Catholic tradition within the Anglican Church. For more info, see http://www.answers.com/topic/church-of-england.

Originally Posted by alecE

...[In order to provide perspective: I was brought up high C of E, am now an atheist. This may be conflicting for the pope - boo to atheists, three cheers for one less Anglican :-) ]

[EatingPie]

Originally Posted by ChrisR1970

So, I actually recomend people read and examine them, ignorance about whats in them is the cause of most of the irrational fears about them. Regardless if you believe them or not, they are important texts from a historical perspective that have influenced the behavior of millions over the centuries.

I am not a believer in Islam, but I fully agree here. If I am to understand a religion, whether I decide to accept it or decide not to accept it, I need to understand it. That means reading the Koran in this case.

In terms of deleting the Koran -- or any book, even the Bible -- I don't have a problem with deleting it if it's my own copy. It's my copy, it's my decision. I'm not censoring anyone else, nor limiting their access to the book. (I would even go so far as saying burning my own copy is similarly okay, though I wouldn't do that purely by virtue of the Nazi-era imagery associated with book burning.)

However, if I decided to delete YOUR copy, or began purchasing/confiscating copies with the express intent of destroying them so nobody else could read them, that would be a wholly different beast. It would be wrong because I am censoring ideas and thought, and I am attempting to effect you through taking your freedom of choice away. As much as people call Christians closed-minded, the Bible talks a lot about making a informed decision whether or not to follow God. Christ's first call to the disciples was, "come and see [and decide for yourselves]." So deleting books that are not your own in such a way is wrong.

One other caveat is this. If I were to delete/burn my own copy, but do so with the express intent to be cruel and disrespectful ("Look at me! I'm burning YOUR sacred book, you religious fool!"), that would also be wrong. The Nazi book burnings had this aspect as well: censor thought, but do so publicly in order to humiliate and influence others.

So this really isn't an easy yes/no question.

-Pie

[distant.star]

I read this far before someone actually said what I was thinking. This is truly silly question.

If I write something from it on my chalkboard, may I not run an eraser across it? How about a steamed mirror? How about if I think about a passage -- am I not allowed to forget it?

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

Forgive me, but the question sounds a bit silly to me. I download and delete books all the time on/from my reader. I have downloaded and deleted several versions of the bible, because I wasn't happy with the formatting. I have owned a couple of paper versions of the bible and got rid of at least one of them (sold it). Although I feel much worse throwing away a paper book than I do deleting an electronic one, there's no big deal in either action, except if I make a big deal of it by staging a public autodafe and making sure that the people who would care about such things are informed of my act and know that I am doing it precisely because they care. Burning a book is only reprehensible because of the symbol it represents, of hatred and intolerance. In itself it's a wasteful act, nothing more, unless you're burning the last existing copy or one of the last few existing copies.

[MacEachaidh]

I don't understand the question. Does it mean to ask if, once I had a copy of it on my reader, I would feel obliged to keep it there forever? Than no.

It's just a book. You can show reverence for the spirit of its contents, but to misplace that reverence onto the physical words themselves, or the paper they're printed on, seems to me to be missing the whole point of "scripture".