Amazon pulls MacMillan?

[Seli]

Originally Posted by Robotech_Master

I really don't think that we need publishers having the authority to set retail prices. It's anti-competitive. It means the end of loss leaders that make such good bargains for consumers, where the store decides to give away money on one item in the hope of making it back on others.

Publishers shouldn't get to decide anything but whether they sell to retailers, when they sell to retailers, and for how much they sell to retailers. What retailers do with it afterward should be out of their hands.

Why could a store not eat some of their profit to sell something cheaper under this model? And technically amazon would stop being a retailer if I understand the concepts correctly.
Anyway in some markets using these sale-tactics (selling at a loss to attract customers) actually are illegal.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by starrigger

The darknet is already sucking up books left and right. Doesn't matter if they're even in ebook; somebody scans them and puts them up. Hell, when I was putting together my own ebooks, a darknet version someone sent me of one of my pre-computer novels was what I used as a starting point. I don't see $15 ebooks as driving that at all.

But it does. It matters a lot when it appears, and where on the darknet for that matter. The best way to delay them is to keep availability high and prices low - the iTunes model, simply making the legal version convenient.

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

link to the Scalzi thing

I just went looking, because I didn't know what he'd said. It's here.

What he said sounded pretty reasonable to me.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by starrigger

I just went looking, because I didn't know what he'd said. It's here.

What he said sounded pretty reasonable to me.

No, not that. Here.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by Seli

Anyway in some markets using these sale-tactics (selling at a loss to attract customers) actually are illegal.

I know I'm much older than most of the posters here, but I remember gas wars when I could buy gasoline at $0.25/gallon.

Ever seen bread at your local supermarket at ridiculously low prices?

Come on... Loss leaders are a common practice for *most* businesses (including bookstores i.e. B&N).

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

But it does. It matters a lot when it appears, and where on the darknet for that matter. The best way to delay them is to keep availability high and prices low - the iTunes model, simply making the legal version convenient.

I don't sweat that much over the darknet. But I agree completely with the goal of making legal editions cheap and convenient. I was happy as a cat in cream when my commercial ebooks went up on webscription.net for a song.

(For the record: I had plenty of reason to be pissed at Amazon and Macmillan both, even before this happened. Macmillan, for not getting my Tor novel into ebook format as promised. Amazon, for not getting my other ebooks up in their catalogue, almost a year after they were submitted. But I suppose none of that is relevant to the present situation.)

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

No, not that. Here.

Yep, douchebaggery confirmed. Glad of that, a friend of mine keeps pushing Scalzi at me (even though my kind of Sci-Fi is more along the lines of Bradbury or Vonnegut) and now I can have a more solid answer to why I won't be reading his work.

[DawnFalcon]

Well, I come from a games background, and we sweat HARD over the darknet. So maybe my focus is misplaced - but when eBook growth is as explosive as it has been, in a few years I think authors will be sweating too. And it's now, now in a few years, when the basic policies to deal with this need to be put in place.

(With RPG PDF's, actually, I agree it's not a massive deal...for starters, no DRM, for second prices are quite reasonable (with a few glaring exceptions, which tend to sell poorly, heh) and thirdly you're marketing to people who tend to either be darknet horders or very good at actually buying stuff. What they're not is representative of Joe Book Buyer.)

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

No, not that. Here.

What's wrong with what he said there? I found it less interesting and less persuasive, but nothing to get riled about.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Well, I come from a games background, and we sweat HARD over the darknet. So maybe my focus is misplaced - but when eBook growth is as explosive as it has been, in a few years I think authors will be sweating too. And it's now, now in a few years, when the basic policies to deal with this need to be put in place.

Do you honestly believe any system can be put in place to deal with the darknet?

[Seli]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

I know I'm much older than most of the posters here, but I remember gas wars when I could buy gasoline at $0.25/gallon.

Ever seen bread at your local supermarket at ridiculously low prices?

Come on... Loss leaders are a common practice for *most* businesses (including bookstores i.e. B&N).

nope, probably some cultural difference between Europe en USA

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Do you honestly believe any system can be put in place to deal with the darknet?

Depends what you mean "deal with". If you mean "stop", heck no. If you mean "minimise the economic impact", heck yes.

Basically, my prescription looks roughly like this:

1. The public are not the enemy
2. Respect your customer's rights. All of them.
3. It's like drugs, the first hit should be free. (Yes, yes, sarcasm but still)
4. Sell cheaply, and if possible for smaller amounts more often.
5. Heavily cross-market your products and come up with reasonable premium products (such as Baen's eArc's).
6. Give your hardcore audience the tools to evangelise you.


Seli - Loss leaders are common in the UK as well.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Depends what you mean "deal with". If you mean "stop", heck no. If you mean "minimise the economic impact", heck yes.

Basically, my prescription looks roughly like this:

1. The public are not the enemy
2. Respect your customer's rights. All of them.
3. It's like drugs, the first hit should be free. (Yes, yes, sarcasm but still)
4. Sell cheaply, and if possible for smaller amounts more often.
5. Heavily cross-market your products and come up with reasonable premium products (such as Baen's eArc's).
6. Give your hardcore audience the tools to evangelise you.


Seli - Loss leaders are common in the UK as well.

Yep, I agree with all that. You'd see a lot less piracy. Only the other day they were offering a slew of Spillane ebooks on Kobo at very good prices. Now, if they'd let me put them all in a basket and buy them, and then allowed all that even though I'm in the UK, they might have had a purchase. As it was anybody who wanted those boosk in the UK would have had to jump through a ridiculous amount of hoops to get them, plus all the hassle with de-DRM'ing afterwards.

Same books, in ePub, one google search, available and ready to go in minutes. It's that level of convenience they need to put in place if they want to beat the Darknet.

[starrigger]

My feeling about the darknet is that most people who are likely to be my customers would rather buy a legit copy of my work if it's available--and most of them probably never even venture into the darknet, if they even know what it is. To the degree that people see my work anywhere, I figure it helps more than it hurts, as it makes more people aware of my books. Same reason I put half a dozen of my books up for free download.

I really am in favor of cheap ebooks. But that doesn't make me want to burn the store down in order to save it.

[TallMomof2]

I fully support any retailer to set the price in their store. Most consumers are price conscious but don't mind paying 10-15% more for convenience and timely availability.