Amazon Sidewalk to go Live on 08 Jun

[John F]

Originally Posted by haertig

I thought we were talking about Amazon taking your bandwidth, without asking, and giving it to others. How did you tangent off to advertisements?

I was talking to rcentros, she seemed concerned about data usage, and ads I bdlieve, will use a lot more data than sidewalk.

Ads show up in your browser because you went to a website that loaded them. When you go to a website, you are requesting their content. That content may include text, images, scripting, ads, spyware and a whole bunch of other stuff. But the point is - YOU went to that website and requested a page load. YOU initiated things.

That is not what Amazon Sidewalk is doing. They are initiating the bandwidth theft all on their own. Therein lies the difference ... and the problem.

...

Ok, then by that logic, it is a problem for existing owners, but not for future owners; if you are a future owner, YOU will have purchased the device and purchased the functionality.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by John F

Ok, then by that logic, it is a problem for existing owners, but not for future owners; if you are a future owner, YOU will have purchased the device and purchased the functionality.

Very true. As long as they specify in the product description and on the box, "This device will grant others use of your bandwidth". If the pending theft is disclosed, sure, it's "Buyer Beware!" Somehow I doubt Amazon would include that notification though, seeing as how they chose opt-out over opt-in. I think Amazon wants to keep this theft of services in the dark, otherwise their Sidewalk will probably disappear right out from under their feet.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by John F

You seemed rather concerned about use of bandwidth.

Which do you think uses more bandwidth, Amazon sidewalk, or ads?

You also seemed to be concerned about automatically opting in. Can you show me an option where I can opt-out for ads?

The two do not equate. But, as I say, I block most ads with Ublock Origin, so your argument here is doubly weak.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by John F

I was talking to rcentros, she seemed concerned about data usage, and ads I bdlieve, will use a lot more data than sidewalk.

Never mentioned ads. You added that bit.

Originally Posted by John F

Ok, then by that logic, it is a problem for existing owners, but not for future owners; if you are a future owner, YOU will have purchased the device and purchased the functionality.

Well, at least we agree on that. Except, I would say, you've purchased the intrusion, not the functionality.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by haertig

Very true. As long as they specify in the product description and on the box, "This device will grant others use of your bandwidth". If the pending theft is disclosed, sure, it's "Buyer Beware!" Somehow I doubt Amazon would include that notification though, seeing as how they chose opt-out over opt-in. I think Amazon wants to keep this theft of services in the dark, otherwise their Sidewalk will probably disappear right out from under their feet.

Exactly. And then you might want to demand royalties from Amazon for using your device, especially if they start selling your information to third parties (which they probably will).

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by haertig

Very true. As long as they specify in the product description and on the box, "This device will grant others use of your bandwidth".

The equivalent for websites would be an initial page that says, "In addition to the content you have requested this web site will use some of your bandwidth to show you ads and track your behavior. Click OK to continue."

[DuskyRose]

I've read though this thread really quickly, so maybe I'm missing something.

Yes, Amazon should have made this an opt-in. Then explained it better.

Isn't this 'sharing' feature for the Apple tags? So that you can find your tags, whatever they're attached to? They're new, so maybe I don't have this quite down, but from what I understand, the amount of bandwidth they're using is just enough to 'ping' something.

I have some of the new tags, and one of them is on my dog. If she gets lost, then I can look to see where she is, and if she's in range of the Sidewalk, I could see her on my phone. If I report her lost, then nearby devices keep an eye out for her. If someone finds her, they can connect to the tag, I get an alert. I can then have Amazon forward the finders a message from me, whether that is "I'm on my way to get her", or "This is my phone number, please call!" But that's only on items I declare lost, and they don't get any info on me that I don't send.

Isn't that what the other tag services do? Amazon is just trying to cover a larger, more complete area of ping service?

Or am I understanding the system wrong?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

Isn't that what the other tag services do? Amazon is just trying to cover a larger, more complete area of ping service?

Or am I understanding the system wrong?

I think the difference between using your own iPhone for tracking down you dog and using someone else's iPhone for (without obtaining their permission first) is quite a bit different.

[John F]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Never mentioned ads. You added that bit.



...

Yes I did mention ads. You seemed very concerned for all these people running running out of data, and yet you seem to not care about how much data is "wasted" on ads.

And has been mentioned, what about Find My? Find My is most likely using cell data, which is usually much more limited than Wifi data?

Just to recap, your data usage concern:

...

And what about a family trying to get along on capped Internet service (like that provided by AT&T) who all stream different services and are constantly on the edge of overcharges? Is Amazon responsible for paying those?

Think about those families that have a capped cell phone data plan, what about all the cell phone data that Find My uses? Think of the children!

[DiapDealer]

Think about those families who have a capped internet service who don't have the technical expertise to disable/defer Windows 10 Home updates? Do you suppose their "Metered Connection" setting (assuming they can find it) eliminates the possibility of going over their limit? How about their wireless router's (whose configuration they've never looked at) automatic firmware check/update?

People on capped internet services already have tons of crap on their network that can unknowingly put them over their cap. All of which was enabled by default. Where's the "but what about the children" rage at Microsoft, Linksys/Cisco, Apple for threatening to put them over their cap without expressly asking their permission to steal their severely limited bandwidth first?

[DuskyRose]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I think the difference between using your own iPhone for tracking down you dog and using someone else's iPhone for (without obtaining their permission first) is quite a bit different.

I do agree that they should have asked first, and explained the system better. What it's doing and why.

But I don't think that the whole idea is one of Conspiracy Level importance. I don't think Amazon has any evilness planned with the system.

I, personally, don't mind if they use a predetermined, microscopic amount of my bandwidth to keep a channel open for finding lost things. It would be hypocritical of me to use the tags and then deny the ability of someone else to find their lost items around me. And if someone finds my stuff, I want to be able to collect my stuff without giving out my address.

So, we'll be leaving ours on for now.

[haertig]

Summing up the positions:

Side A: Theft is OK, especially if it's just a little bit. Other people steal too, and even bigger stuff sometimes, so that justifies this. I don't mind people stealing from me, so you shouldn't mind them stealing from you. By condoning this theft, I am helping others for the greater good.

Side B: Theft is wrong.

Side A and Side B will never agree.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by haertig

Summing up the positions:

Side A: Theft is OK, especially if it's just a little bit. Other people steal too, and even bigger stuff sometimes, so that justifies this. I don't mind people stealing from me, so you shouldn't mind them stealing from you. By condoning this theft, I am helping others for the greater good.

Side B: Theft is wrong.

Side A and Side B will never agree.

Thank you for putting in an honest effort to really give both sides of the issue a fair hearing.

[Deskisamess]

Turn the option off. Then no one is "stealing" anything. Lock your car, lock your house, lock down your devices.

If you had no option, it would be different. But you do. Don't like Amazon's devices, don't buy them. Don't like some of the options/settings? Change it.

[DiapDealer]

I like this one better.

Side A: Amazon is evil. Everyone should agree with us that they're evil. By not agreeing with Side A that Amazon is the devil incarnate, you're putting human-kind in peril.

Side B: the rational portion of society who knows that nothing is ever as black and white as Side A wants to pretend it is.