looking for privacy friendly quality ereader - Page 9

ZodWallop · 05-31-2020, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I'm trying to figure out how someone feels the need to fake register a Kobo.

Because they think that by giving any sort of personal information to a company, that company is going to have their nefarious hackers go seek out every bit of private information about their lives.

I'm not saying it is reasonable. But it is at least one reason why folks feel the need to fake register.

Quote:

How is that person going to buy eBooks without giving out any information? It does feel like "I want to keep my Reader fully private so big brother won't see that I'm reading eBooks that I stole.". If I'm wrong, that's fine.

I get where you are coming from.

Quote:

Big brother is not as bad as some make them out to be.

Now that is a scary statement.

ZodWallop · 05-31-2020, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tar

I fail to see any connection whatsoever between ereader privacy and prohibited copying of ebooks.

No Ereader provider is checking the sideloaded book validity and then calling cops on you if something's amiss...

It's not like police is going to routinely check your ereader's books to see if they're procured in lawful manner lol.

...That being said, I admit that ereader privacy concerns are mostly useless. The devices have no microphone or camera and most don't have decent internet accessibility for you to leave useful footprints around.

Hey, everything there is perfectly understandable. I can understand the desire for privacy. Though being worried/annoyed about using a fake email address seems ludicrous to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tar

But to me it is a matter of principle and preference as well as just me feeling good when I can feel that I own the device and I don't owe it even a fake email to use it, nor have to think too much about what it might be doing behind my back.

Even when you already know that 'what it might be doing behind your back' is nothing? You already admit 'The devices have no microphone or camera and most don't have decent internet accessibility for you to leave useful footprints around' and if you turn off WiFi, what mysterious spy technology is it using to send information anywhere?

In the end, none of that really matters to me. I feel differently than you, but I'm also a fan of letting your freak flag fly.

What I don't support is illegally downloading works. Not because I am so worried about the health of some megacorp. But because the author whose work you enjoy is receiving no remuneration from you.

Spin it all you want, but most authors make no decent amount of money off of their work at the best of times. Swiping their work for free just exacerbates the problem.

If you can't find a way you feel comfortable obtaining digital books in some sort of above the board manner, maybe digital books just aren't for you.

JSWolf · 05-31-2020, 11:57 AM

Thing is, 1984 made it known that Amazon can see what you have on your Kindle. I've never read of Kobo being able to see what I have on my Reader. But because of 1984, more people are weary of privacy and those that do steal eBooks may be afraid that with WiFi on, they can be spied on and if found out, get in trouble.

I have a proper account with Kobo, Amazon, Google, ebooks.com, Smashwords, And Baen, and others. I used to have accounts at a lot more places but thanks to Apple and the price fix 6 a lot of those are now gone.

JSWolf · 05-31-2020, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Because they think that by giving any sort of personal information to a company, that company is going to have their nefarious hackers go seek out every bit of private information about their lives.

I'm not saying it is reasonable. But it is at least one reason why folks feel the need to fake register.

Buy an eBook and some companies have your information. What's different? NOTHING!

Quote:

I get where you are coming from.

There is no way to read commercial eBooks legally without giving some information. Even library eBooks need your information and in the US in the case of Kindle eBooks from the library, you have to give your library and Overdrive your information and then you also have to give your information to Amazon. You can't win. So why bother?

Quote:

Now that is a scary statement.

I've never had any problems with Amazon or Kobo or Google.

ottischwenk · 05-31-2020, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There is no way to read commercial eBooks legally without giving some information. Even library eBooks need your information and in the US in the case of Kindle eBooks from the library, you have to give your library and Overdrive your information and then you also have to give your information to Amazon. You can't win. So why bother?

You can go to a bookstore, buy a paper book with cash, scan it and then read it on the reader

JSWolf · 05-31-2020, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

You can go to a bookstore, buy a paper book with cash, scan it and then read it on the reader

Is it legal to scan a pBook and convert to an eBook?

Sirtel · 05-31-2020, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

As far as I am aware, you can sideload books to every device on the market.

That's right. All the books on my Kindles, Nook and Kobo are sideloaded. Wifi is off most of the time. (Not because I stole the books, but because I buy from different stores and it's just easier to keep them all in Calibre and sideload from there. B&N wouldn't sell me ebooks at all, so sideloading is the only way I can get ebooks on my Nook).

ottischwenk · 05-31-2020, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Is it legal to scan a pBook and convert to an eBook?

Yes - here in Austria you can make copies for private use.
Even with a copier.
Especially with a scanner, OCR, format change from pdf to epub!
Here it is prohibited by law to remove DRM, but it is not against the law if you take pictures on a reader side by side and ....

Quoth · 05-31-2020, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Here it is prohibited by law to remove DRM

I can find no such general law. It's forbidden to remove DRM for the purpose of distributing copies.

But in every EU country and most other countries you'd be breaking Copyright law anyway, to distribute copies without the permission of the rights holders, if there is a valid copyright. So no different to scanning a paperback book.

shalym · 05-31-2020, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Is it legal to scan a pBook and convert to an eBook?

Yes.

https://1dollarscan.com/

Shari

ottischwenk · 05-31-2020, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

I can find no such general law. It's forbidden to remove DRM for the purpose of distributing copies.

But in every EU country and most other countries you'd be breaking Copyright law anyway, to distribute copies without the permission of the rights holders, if there is a valid copyright. So no different to scanning a paperback book.

Removing DRM is prohibited in the EU, even for private use.
However, copies of books do not violate the law if they are created solely for your own use.
I have made no statements about disclosure.

Quoth · 05-31-2020, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Removing DRM is prohibited in the EU, even for private use.

Where is that law written, which then has to be enacted by each member country?
The ereader removes the DRM or you could not read it. The chips in the HDMI receiver remove the HDCP DRM or you couldn't view it.

https://www.mhpbooks.com/austrian-pr...ss-kindle-drm/

The EU is not the USA. The USA DMCA doesn't exist here.

JSWolf · 05-31-2020, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

Yes.

https://1dollarscan.com/

Shari

The problem there is you get back PDF. That to me is useless.

murraypaul · 05-31-2020, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Is it legal to scan a pBook and convert to an eBook?

That would obviously depend on where you are.
I believe in the UK it would not be legal, just as it is not legal to rip a CD to MP3.
(It is also just as unlikely to ever be prosecuted.)

mirage · 05-31-2020, 02:49 PM

This notion that people here who state that they (we) go out of our way to protect our privacy must be doing it to "steal" books is misguided. I don't download materials illegally from any piracy site or anything close to it. Everything I consume online is done through legal means. I pay to subscribe to plenty of online services and am happy to support their creators just like I am the authors of books I buy. (Even if those authors see way too little of the revenues in most cases.) Surely, that's the case for most people who object to what they feel to be privacy invasions by tech companies and websites. I doubt that most people who pirate things are particularly concerned with the ethics and politics of the larger issues. Though it's worth keeping in mind that different places have different laws and ways of seeing things and that what we're used to isn't necessarily the absolute truth.

To isolate desires here to protect privacy as being futile and mere excuses to steal is short sighted. Our internet and television activity is heavily monitored. Companies want our data to profile us so that they can sell things to us. The existence of that data can potentially be used nefariously. We have to consent to this reality to use the sites and products, but that doesn't make it right. There could be laws that restrict these practices to the benefit of the consumer more than what they are. Some prominent political figures advocate that. Companies sell our data to other companies. But we don't get a share of the proceeds even though it's our information. Many argue that we should.

Shoshana Zuboff wrote a well received, longish book about the dangers of these tactics. Harvard thinks enough of her to have kept her around for the last 40 years. Lots of universities have departments that study cyber security from various angles including the ethics and morality of these practices. Plenty of people inside of tech companies who employ these practices have warned of their dangers. Some have left because they don't want to be a part of it anymore and speak out against it.

Do all these people and institutions analyze, talk, and write about this stuff because their real purpose is to "steal books?"

Yes, protecting our identities when using ereaders is pretty futile if we want to get full use out of them. And that's nothing compared to surfing the net, using our phones, watching cable or satellite TV, and beyond.

But that's not the point. There are a lot of us who prefer to protect ourselves to whatever small degree we can via browser extensions, ad blockers, VPNs, etc. It may only buy us 10% of the protection we're hoping for, but so what? We try, we do our best, we don't lose sight of the values that matter to us even if we accept that we have to make compromises.

Some people, not many, I realize, don't have mobile phones. I know a few of them. I admire them for it. I didn't make that choice. I have a phone. I buy apps for it. I surf the net. I subscribe to entertainment services, have a cable account, an Amazon Prime account. But there are times where I read the EULA for a site I'm thinking of subscribing to and decide I'm not going to do it. I don't like their terms and what they're offering isn't important enough to me to play along. Of course, they know my IP address even if I'm not logged in and am only using what I get for free from them.

So I do prefer to be as anonymous as I can be when I get whatever ereader I end up buying. Not because I'm stealing anything, not because I don't want Kobo or whatever entity to know my name, but because I prefer to make the effort to maintain some semblance of control over what I do and who gets to know about it and profit from it, just like I eat good food and take care of myself even though I won't live forever no matter how hard I try.

The OP here was mercilessly attacked. But she/he was honest, respectful, and principled. He thinks about these issues and, agree or disagree, makes reasoned choices. I wish he hadn't been chased away. He had a lot to offer, even if some of you disagree with the approach.

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05-31-2020, 11:57 AM	#123
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,763 Karma: 145864619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Thing is, 1984 made it known that Amazon can see what you have on your Kindle. I've never read of Kobo being able to see what I have on my Reader. But because of 1984, more people are weary of privacy and those that do steal eBooks may be afraid that with WiFi on, they can be spied on and if found out, get in trouble. I have a proper account with Kobo, Amazon, Google, ebooks.com, Smashwords, And Baen, and others. I used to have accounts at a lot more places but thanks to Apple and the price fix 6 a lot of those are now gone.

05-31-2020, 02:49 PM	#135
mirage Zealot Posts: 141 Karma: 2382428 Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: California Device: OnePlus 6 phone, Kobo Clara HD, Libra H2O	This notion that people here who state that they (we) go out of our way to protect our privacy must be doing it to "steal" books is misguided. I don't download materials illegally from any piracy site or anything close to it. Everything I consume online is done through legal means. I pay to subscribe to plenty of online services and am happy to support their creators just like I am the authors of books I buy. (Even if those authors see way too little of the revenues in most cases.) Surely, that's the case for most people who object to what they feel to be privacy invasions by tech companies and websites. I doubt that most people who pirate things are particularly concerned with the ethics and politics of the larger issues. Though it's worth keeping in mind that different places have different laws and ways of seeing things and that what we're used to isn't necessarily the absolute truth. To isolate desires here to protect privacy as being futile and mere excuses to steal is short sighted. Our internet and television activity is heavily monitored. Companies want our data to profile us so that they can sell things to us. The existence of that data can potentially be used nefariously. We have to consent to this reality to use the sites and products, but that doesn't make it right. There could be laws that restrict these practices to the benefit of the consumer more than what they are. Some prominent political figures advocate that. Companies sell our data to other companies. But we don't get a share of the proceeds even though it's our information. Many argue that we should. Shoshana Zuboff wrote a well received, longish book about the dangers of these tactics. Harvard thinks enough of her to have kept her around for the last 40 years. Lots of universities have departments that study cyber security from various angles including the ethics and morality of these practices. Plenty of people inside of tech companies who employ these practices have warned of their dangers. Some have left because they don't want to be a part of it anymore and speak out against it. Do all these people and institutions analyze, talk, and write about this stuff because their real purpose is to "steal books?" Yes, protecting our identities when using ereaders is pretty futile if we want to get full use out of them. And that's nothing compared to surfing the net, using our phones, watching cable or satellite TV, and beyond. But that's not the point. There are a lot of us who prefer to protect ourselves to whatever small degree we can via browser extensions, ad blockers, VPNs, etc. It may only buy us 10% of the protection we're hoping for, but so what? We try, we do our best, we don't lose sight of the values that matter to us even if we accept that we have to make compromises. Some people, not many, I realize, don't have mobile phones. I know a few of them. I admire them for it. I didn't make that choice. I have a phone. I buy apps for it. I surf the net. I subscribe to entertainment services, have a cable account, an Amazon Prime account. But there are times where I read the EULA for a site I'm thinking of subscribing to and decide I'm not going to do it. I don't like their terms and what they're offering isn't important enough to me to play along. Of course, they know my IP address even if I'm not logged in and am only using what I get for free from them. So I do prefer to be as anonymous as I can be when I get whatever ereader I end up buying. Not because I'm stealing anything, not because I don't want Kobo or whatever entity to know my name, but because I prefer to make the effort to maintain some semblance of control over what I do and who gets to know about it and profit from it, just like I eat good food and take care of myself even though I won't live forever no matter how hard I try. The OP here was mercilessly attacked. But she/he was honest, respectful, and principled. He thinks about these issues and, agree or disagree, makes reasoned choices. I wish he hadn't been chased away. He had a lot to offer, even if some of you disagree with the approach.

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