What sort of ebook reader do we really want?

[Timboli]

Oops it appears I was wrong ... fancy that.

Damn you HarryT you forced me to do some research.

And I will now take your word for the LCD info, without research.

Funny how you remember things sometimes.

Obviously I am on the road of the great decline.

P.S. Nothing like sowing a little misinformation for the cause of E-Ink.

[radius]

Originally Posted by Timboli

You must use them a funny way then. I always search high and low for a decent cover, which must be strong and padded. The weight they add is less than a standard hard cover all told. The world is full of cracked screens for ereaders, phones and tablets, because people don't think wisely. You can avoid most damage with a decent cover and intelligent use, but some protection can only be gained by being inside a metal brief case ... unless a vehicle runs over it.

Maybe we mean different things when we say cover. I am talking about a flap that covers the screen. May or may not include a piece that covers or protects the back of the device.

Speaking strictly about the front flap over the screen:

- doesn't protect against dropped impact; you need something on the corners of the device for that
- doesn't protect against torsion; most covers aren't stiff enough and even if they were since they only attach on one edge they couldn't stop the device from being torqued anyway
- doesn't protect against bending; see above
- doesn't protect against scratches; because three sides are open, stuff can easily get in between the cover and the display and scratch it anyway. Even worse, it can get trapped between the cover and display and grind deeper scratches than you might otherwise have gotten

The only situation where it is kind of helpful is if you bend it back around when reading and it protects the back of the device from the surface you lay it on.

And I don't understand your bit about "thinking wisely" and "intelligent use". To me, it's just a matter of risks and tradeoffs. I believe that a cover by itself (ie: not a full case) offers close to no help for preventing cracked or scratched screens whereas it is heavy, gets in the way of reading, and is yet another @!$^%&# magnet in my bag cause my electronics to all go off and on at weird times. Besides which, reader technology is still changing fast enough that I likely want to upgrade in two or three years and the likelihood that my screen is damaged in that time is even smaller. It's no big deal if I get a scratch or crack; readers are typically very affordable.

And this is coming from someone who daily carries his naked readers in a bag.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by radius

And I don't understand your bit about "thinking wisely" and "intelligent use". To me, it's just a matter of risks and tradeoffs. I believe that a cover by itself (ie: not a full case) offers close to no help for preventing cracked or scratched screens whereas it is heavy, gets in the way of reading, and is yet another @!$^%&# magnet in my bag cause my electronics to all go off and on at weird times. Besides which, reader technology is still changing fast enough that I likely want to upgrade in two or three years and the likelihood that my screen is damaged in that time is even smaller. It's no big deal if I get a scratch or crack; readers are typically very affordable.

And this is coming from someone who daily carries his naked readers in a bag.

I took the magnet out of my cover.

[ApK]

Cin, please. Less quoting.

ETA: My tiny mobile phone browser and I thank you! :-)

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I took the magnet out of my cover.

And none of mine have magnets ... a very deliberate choice.

@radius - as someone who has never taken his devices out much in a bag, and certainly never put them in jeopardy of something that could slip inside the cover and be against the screen, not without being in an additional zipped up extra bag/cover like my tablet (or use a self-contained secure pocket in the bag), I feel I have covered most feasible bases without going to extremes.

Me, I am a great fan of 'prevention is better than cure'. You can be lucky, and from what I've seen, many are, and you can be unlucky ... and many are. All I ever do, is reduce my chances of being unlucky.

In the end though, if those pesky Gremlins have you in their sights, no amount of prevention will do you any good ... except perhaps using a Gremlin Exterminator.

P.S. For the record, no simple flap covers pass muster for me. If it is not full protection both front & rear, plus sides (device inset from edge), then it doesn't even appear on my radar. The cover has to be like thick (let's say 2mm) cardboard, only tougher than cardboard, waterproof (as in splash proof, obviously not immersion), and while heaviness is not a big issue for me, my general rule of thumb, is anything lighter than a standard hardcover novel, can pass muster ... I am always willing to trade off a weight though for improved protection. As I've said earlier, I want to feel I am reading a book ... not a piece of paper (or thin cardboard) or large credit card the reading length of a book.

And honestly, I can't abide slippery phones, tablets or ereaders ... not only do they feel b-grade, but you are just asking for trouble. I can savor the feel of my covers and grip them easily and ruggedly, without fear of cracking the screen.

A book should be an experience in my view. It should open up, and have both a left and right page (right being where the device sits). It should feel nice, smell nice, and definitely look less like some tech toy as possible ... got enough of those. In short, an ebook should be as much like a traditional book as possible.

So as many know, there are people who listen to music and then there are those who love music. It is the same for books. Some dive in deep for the whole multidimensional experience, and some are just happy swimming in the shallows.

Whatever floats your boat, is fine by me ... just don't try to impose your religion on me.

P.S.S. If someone spills a drink on the coffee table (etc) where your book is sitting, and it is a physical book, then at worst, you have wrecked one book. An ereader on the other hand, without a decent cover, is an expensive door stop ... not to mention the issue of where it may be your only one.

[Timboli]

Another way to describe where I am coming from, is to say the following.

When I look at my device, I don't want to see or think the following.

Kindle, Samsung, etc.
Ereader or Tablet.
Toy or Tech device.

In short, I just want to see a book, and a decent cover can give you that at the very least, but also grant protection and nice feelings just like a real book.

Books are marvelous things, without a doubt.

[Sirtel]

Well, to each his own. I personally don't want my e-reader to remind me of a paper book. There's a reason I don't buy paper books anymore. They're heavy, uncomfortable to hold and take up too much physical space. I want my e-reader to be lightweight and comfortable, and I want to hold it in one hand while I read. Protection is not an issue for me, because practically the only place where I use the e-reader is my sofa. I never take my e-readers even to the kitchen with me, let alone out of the house.

Different people have different needs.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Well, to each his own. .... Different people have different needs.

Can't argue with that, and it is not my intention to convert anyone for their own sake.

I will however stress again, that an awful lot of people still avoid ebooks and ereaders, and part of that is due to their love of the physical book and the difference between that and an ereader. And that matters to me, because of price and publishers/authors not treating ebook customers like they should be.

While physical books continue in such high demand, ebook costs are going to continue to subsidize the poorer return physical books.

And while ereaders are uglier and less attractive etc than physical books, then many are going to continue to avoid them.

Ereaders and ebooks have well and truly proved their value, feasibility and popularity among a good number of people, now manufacturers need to start making them beautiful, just like many physical books are with their brilliant covers. To do that properly, the covers need to be transparent, and look more like a book than an ereader or tablet. In fact, I really think the cover should house the device, to the point of only showing the screen itself, unless you open the medium it is embedded in, right up.

So in other words, the ereader or tablet is fully embedded in some sort of book looking cover, where only the screen shows, when the front book like flap is opened. So in essence it looks non plastic-like and non techno.

Warm and friendly for the masses, I'd call it.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Can't argue with that, and it is not my intention to convert anyone for their own sake.

I will however stress again, that an awful lot of people still avoid ebooks and ereaders, and part of that is due to their love of the physical book and the difference between that and an ereader. And that matters to me, because of price and publishers/authors not treating ebook customers like they should be.

While physical books continue in such high demand, ebook costs are going to continue to subsidize the poorer return physical books.

And while ereaders are uglier and less attractive etc than physical books, then many are going to continue to avoid them.

Ereaders and ebooks have well and truly proved their value, feasibility and popularity among a good number of people, now manufacturers need to start making them beautiful, just like many physical books are with their brilliant covers. To do that properly, the covers need to be transparent, and look more like a book than an ereader or tablet. In fact, I really think the cover should house the device, to the point of only showing the screen itself, unless you open the medium it is embedded in, right up.

So in other words, the ereader or tablet is fully embedded in some sort of book looking cover, where only the screen shows, when the front book like flap is opened. So in essence it looks non plastic-like and non techno.

Warm and friendly for the masses, I'd call it.

There are some people that avoid books completely.

Thing is if a person is stubborn enough to want only books with paper, the design of the ereader won't matter because they won't buy one anyway.

Since ereaders are pretty much alike in size and shape, I am pretty sure research has shown that it optimal for most people that buy ereaders.

If you really think making an ereader that acts more like paper books will attract an audience, why don't you get in touch with a developer. Michael over at goodEreader might be interested in helping you.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

There are some people that avoid books completely.

For sure, and they are not the target audience.

Thing is if a person is stubborn enough to want only books with paper, the design of the ereader won't matter because they won't buy one anyway.

Well that is where you and I differ, as I do not see it as stubborn, but rather one of an aesthetic. They either love current physical books a lot, as I do, or they dislike the look and feel of an ereader, especially as a substitute for a physical book. Most people are not tech junkies, and while ereaders have in recent years, moved some way beyond just appealing to a geek, they still have a ways to go, before they reach mainstream appeal.

Since ereaders are pretty much alike in size and shape, I am pretty sure research has shown that it optimal for most people that buy ereaders.

Don't follow your logic there. I am not talking about the barebones device itself, but what it gets housed in, and really it is limited physically when it comes to some plastic and a screen. People just buy what is on offer most of the time anyway, provided they want it enough. I and I'm sure many others, bought an ereader to read ebooks, not because we thought an ereader looked great, and when there isn't much real variety in choice, you go for the least displeasing/best features/does a good job/fair enough price. Unless of course you are a tech junkie and thus all ereaders have some merit, even if just to laugh back at in years to come and show off.

While I admit to being a bit of a tech fanboy or geek at times, I never looked at an ereader and said that looks great artistically, so I will leave it like that. I always thought - now what sort of suitable friendly cover can I find.

All said and done, when an ereader or tablet are sitting there off, they look much alike, the differences being just thickness and quality of materials and craftsmanship putting them together.

If you really think making an ereader that acts more like paper books will attract an audience, why don't you get in touch with a developer. Michael over at goodEreader might be interested in helping you.

Developers need to come to the right conclusion themselves, else I would just be wasting my breath. Short of a petition, which no-one is gonna bother with, as current ereader owners are already convinced, potential owners are blinkered mostly (due to what they have already seen), I'm sure the developers wouldn't listen. Someone needs to be brave, just like with the first iPod.

And then, let's not forget, all those who have for various reasons, gone straight to the tablet/iPad. Most of them, probably weren't thinking ebook reader when they went that way, except as an additional feature. But because they have gone that way, they are unlikely to fork over extra for an E-Ink reader. Most in my experience, just don't understand the difference or realize the benefit.

So when you really look at ebook readers and take out all the tablet/ipad users only, the number of actual E-Ink owners decreases quite dramatically.

As I think about all this and the future of E-Ink readers, I am reminded of the way surround sound music went. Vastly superior to Stereo, it has not been marketed well, and so we have format after format, seen them essentially disappear and never go anything like mainstream. They have for the most part been relegated to Hifi enthusiasts with plenty of money. This could all too easily become the fate of E-Ink readers, and for those of us who realize just how much better they are, that would be a great loss.

To that end, I promote E-Ink readers to the masses whenever I can, though one cannot deny the cost factor and lack of alternate uses.

[Cinisajoy]

Not gonna quote you but there are over a billion smartphones and tablets and only 75 million ereaders.
Ereaders are a very niche market. I looked that up recently.
But not that many people read enough to offset the cost.
Which I figure is a pretty big factor.

So now when we are talking people that only read paper are we talking about readers like my daughter who reads on a daily basis or are we talking the ones that maybe read a book a month or year.
The second group has no real incentive to buy an ereader.

I was serious though about if you can think of a mass appeal ereader, do talk to Michael over at goodEreader. I understand he tries to be innovative.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Ereaders are a very niche market. I looked that up recently.

For sure, but it is way bigger than just a few years back, but since the rise of the tablet/ipad, rate of expansion has slowed dramatically.

But not that many people read enough to offset the cost.
Which I figure is a pretty big factor.

Mmmm ... yes & no. My understanding, is that book lovers aren't necessarily ereader lovers, and I know many who read plenty but haven't gone ereader, and they have plenty of money too. Often, it is cost that drives others to an ereader, especially as it doesn't take that many physical books to pay for the cost of an ereader. That said, many publishers are playing games, and it is often just as cheap if not cheaper to buy a paperback. So while, yes an ereader cost might be a factor, it is more likely ebook prices that can be a deterrent or just not enough difference to be a motivator ... which publishers well know.

So now when we are talking people that only read paper are we talking about readers like my daughter who reads on a daily basis or are we talking the ones that maybe read a book a month or year.
The second group has no real incentive to buy an ereader.

More like the first group than the latter. The latter are most likely to only go the way of an ereader for tech joy ... or have some issue an ereader solves.

There is an awful lot of older people who fit in the first group, who unlike the young, are less motivated to get an ereader, in my experience, despite the number of books they constantly read and despite having plenty enough money and despite having eyesight issues. They are the group that need incentivizing/educating. The young in that group though, with their lack of worldly sense, usually, are just gonna go tablet or iPad, especially as cost is usually a factor for them, and multiple uses is important. They will say, I look at a tablet/ipad screen and my eyes are fine, and any contrary medical facts they will no doubt ignore, mostly.

Older users, especially once they start getting headaches (focus issues, etc) from tablet use, and many do, will be more likely to go E-Ink, once they realize there is a significant difference and it is meaningful for them and their reading joy.

I was serious though about if you can think of a mass appeal ereader, do talk to Michael over at goodEreader. I understand he tries to be innovative.

Despite what I said earlier, I will take a look, because I have barely heard of goodEreader, but my estimation, is it will take a big company with lots of money to do the justice needed, and have the balls for any seeming risk. In a sense, to do what I think is best, it would be like housing an ereader inside a book-like enclosure, which I imagine, will not be cheap initially and the result would need to be attractive to potential customers.

Here is another way of imagining my vision.
Remember how people sometimes hollow out a hardback novel a little, to secrete something inside. Well imagine something similar for an ereader, but the top few pages, are only cut out enough (rectangle) to see just the screen. Close the book and it looks like a book, and can even sit in a bookshelf. Open it up, and except for the screen, which can look quite paper-like with E-Ink, it looks mostly like a book still. If the cover, front and back, are thick enough to be protective, and a clasp holds the front closed, then what a delicious ereader it could be. Even more so, if the front is transparent and we have an eventual color E-Ink, and your current book's great artistic cover is showing. That would be a dream for a techboy like me ... best of both worlds. Even the back in the top of the range model, could be induced to show the blurb ... or the front at a click of a button. Maybe even a button to cycle through covers and blurbs, without really turning the device on. That would mean browsing with a full size cover picture for each ... exquisite.

[Cinisajoy]

Oh an ereader book safe. Sounds cool.

And have you met barryem, he is our resident senior that loans and gives ereaders to other seniors in his retirement home.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

And have you met barryem, he is our resident senior that loans and gives ereaders to other seniors in his retirement home.

I wish I knew if I was being lauded or mocked. I guess either one is okay.

Barry

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by barryem

I wish I knew if I was being lauded or mocked. I guess either one is okay.

Barry

Lauded my dear.