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#121 |
Grand Sorcerer
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Debatable.
All readers reading the same title with the same "Cleanness" Level selected will see the exact same altered work. The readers didn't choose what words would be substituted for others in this altered experience of that copyrighted work, the designers of Clean Reader did. In exchange for money. Last edited by DiapDealer; 03-28-2015 at 03:12 PM. |
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#122 | ||
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
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Let's see if we can all get to some type of base of concurrence on one thing, before moving forward: Do we all agree that an author, completely and without question, has the right to agree to sell or NOT TO SELL abridged, shortened, condensed, etc., versions of his books? Or does s/he not have that right? That if the Chocolat author doesn't want anyone touching any word of her finished works, she has a right to NOT sell the rights to any version thereof? To preserve the books in a "pristine" condition, from the bookseller, at least? Quote:
And, as I said--not really jokingly, in my last post on this (prior to my Pale Horse post), where's MY app? Where's the one that removes all the insipidity to which I object? I find the vapidity of Bella Swan FAR more objectionable, and truthfully, dangerous to young women than seeing a curse word. Where's MY app, that makes her into a 3D person? Someone with interests, ideas, thoughts, of her own? Someone who doesn't do what a real parent would send them to Boarding School over? Where's the app that makes a real father drag her out of her bedroom, before she sits there for a year and sulks over a missing pedo boyfriend? Where's the app where the "heroine" (ye gods) of Fifty Shades of Insipid rips off whatever bondage crap she's wearing, and beats the holy s--- out of her "boyfriend" dominator/whatever? Where's the app that puts a Scarlet Letter on all the folks who READ IT???? My point here is: anyone, anywhere, anytime, can find things that are "objectionable" in books. I truly find the whole Bella Swan "saga" FAR MORE objectionable, in many ways, than the vast bulk of bad language seen in typical modern fiction. I think it's more dangerous. It OFFENDS my own, personal, deeply-held beliefs. I'll bet that dozens of people who read that "pshaw" that idea. But how come I don't get an app to "fix" what's wrong with that book? You guys still aren't looking at the bigger picture, as I said. WHERE DOES IT STOP???? Who decides, what bits get changed? What if I make an app (Thank you, Ian Rankin--in your honor, I cruised over to Acorn last night on my Roku and watched Rebus) to kill off Rebus, for reality? Sure...in a print book, you can go through and line out whatever you want. You can mark it up, tear out pages, burn it to keep you warm for 30 seconds. But what you're NOT doing, is doing that, for pay, for a third-party. You're only doing it for yourself. To me...they're not QUITE the same. (And don't tell me that the Clean Reader "parents" weren't looking to make a buck!). Hitch Last edited by Hitch; 03-30-2015 at 04:48 PM. Reason: homonym error. How mortifying! |
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#123 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
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But those are just opinions. I can't offer any concrete evidence that that's where stuff like this will lead, so I typically avoid discussing it (for the most part) online. That and I knew that authors/publishers would raise a bigger stink about this than I ever could. And no ... none of those fears were sarcastic (except for the Ghostbusters reference ![]() Last edited by DiapDealer; 03-28-2015 at 04:48 PM. |
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#124 | |
Nameless Being
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Child: "Why is fuck a bad word?" Adult: "Because it talks about having sex." Child: "What is sex?" Adult: "That is how babies are made." Child: "Why is making babies bad?" Of course, the conversation with a 12 year old would be quite different. They would understand what you're talking about, but be uncomfortable with it for all of the wrong reasons. With a 16 year old, the conversation would be different yet again. The point is that the child must be prepared to "face the realities of the world" when they are explained to the child. The conversation will depend upon the word in question as well as the social and intellectual development of the child. For some children, and some words, this will be quite early on. For other children, and the adults involved, this will be at a later stage. |
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#125 | ||||
No Comment
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Location: Australia
Device: Kobo: Not just an eReader, it's an adventure!
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As a consequence of those discussions, a number of publishers have decided not to supply content to the distributor of the app. This is the marketplace in action. The makers of the app are still free to distribute that app. However, it's entirely possible that the publicity will inform a lot of people who want this kind of app and they will then buy the app. In which case the marketplace will also be working. Quote:
Currently the app doesn't work with DRMed content, which will greatly limit its usability. However, the makers of the app can get a licence from Adobe and include DRM into their app. The fact that Adobe's licencing costs are great enough to effectively prevent this from happening says two things: Adobe (and therefore the marketplace) is charging too much for this functionality, and the makers of the app don't sufficiently believe in their app to take the risk and spend the money to get the DRM module. Regardless of how you look at this, if the app fails, it is because the makers/distributors of the app are unable to deal with the marketplace. Or have insufficient belief in their product to ensure it survives in the marketplace. Quote:
The copyright holders of the content have also exercised their rights. Quote:
Anyone can download the app and use it. If the current distributors of the app make a commercial decision to not carry that app, the makers of the app can put it into the Google app shop (if it already isn't there), or the Amazon app shop, or any number of places that will distribute their app. Last edited by murg; 03-28-2015 at 06:58 PM. |
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#126 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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Location: near Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Kids Edition, Fire HD 10 (11th generation)
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However, as everyone knows, copyright law isn't vigorously enforced. If it was, half (or maybe a lot more) of the students in the Ivy League would have a criminal record. I've read that in China, translated books often leave out passages that are considered politically or otherwise outre. This affects a lot more people than a app hardly anyone is going to buy and which only makes superficial changes. While teachers and parents shouldn't use this software, I'd rather they use it than delete whole sentences, or ban the books. |
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#127 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Libra 2, iPadMini4, iPad4, MBP; support other Kobo/Kindles
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Deliberately staggered release of print and electronic formats in mainstream novels has not yet been tested in court that I'm aware of, but I'm guessing it will be at some point - deliberately denying people with print disabilities access to your product when you have the resources to provide it is a very questionable practice. And yes 'entertainment' is included as a realm that should be made accessible in the human rights legislation I'm familiar with in my country and again in at least some others. |
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#128 | ||
Ex-Helpdesk Junkie
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Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity
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I have already stated that I support stupid peoples' right to do whatever stupid things they want, so long as it is clear that they are not affiliated in any way, shape, or form with the authors or publishers. Now that the app has been fixed, to require buying the book from an innocuous source, and manually sideloaded into an app that is an "ereader which filters your books" rather than an "ereader with filtered books", I am satisfied. Heck, parents have always had the right to raise their kids however they like, within certain relatively new, and lenient, boundaries like no beating the hell out of them. ![]() Why should this app be any different? |
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#129 | |
Ex-Helpdesk Junkie
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If a parent wants to instill a certain values system in their children, they absolutely can, should, and do go through the steps of doing precisely that. Real parents (unlike the two-dimensional app commissioners and their two-dimensional daughter) are required to interest themselves in their childrens' childhood. This can and does happen. You may disagree with the values system certain arbitrarily-selected-by-you parents believe in, and you may think it is a tragedy that children are, perhaps, emotionally stunted in your opinion... but all you have done is replaced their values system with yours. What makes you so absolutely sure your values system is so superior to others' that it should be obligatory for adoption? Would you, perhaps, like to make a law against parents raising their children according to non-state-approved values systems? |
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#130 | |
Whatever...
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With music downloads, Amazon.de adds "Explicit" to any album or song with even the mildest sexual content. Not "porn," but Laura Marling, for instance, if you can believe it. (http://www.amazon.de/Short-Movie-Exp...Laura-Marling/ if you can't.) They don't just say "Explicit" on the download page, "Explicit" is part of the file names, and is added to the song and album titles in the mp3 tags! (Interestingly, because contrary to what I'd have expected, they do not seem to do this in the US? Or just not with Laura Marling?) OK, so this is not a filter yet, and if you buy the CD instead of downlading the mp3s you will be shocked by all the explicit content without having been properly warned, but it shows that Amazon is giving some thought to how they can protect us from the dark side of art -- and yes, this is a very slippery slope... |
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#131 | ||
Grand Sorcerer
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Location: near Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Kids Edition, Fire HD 10 (11th generation)
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Here is one author reaction: http://blog.lareviewofbooks.org/chin...hinese-market/ Quote:
I realize this thread has not previously been about translation, but aren't most books, world-wide, read in translation? Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 03-29-2015 at 10:32 AM. |
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#132 | |
Wizard
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Shari |
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#133 |
eBook Enthusiast
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Nobody needs to "authorise" it. If you're reading a book out loud to your children, you don't need the author's permission to alter words that you feel would be unsuitable for them. This is exactly the same. Seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill to me; nobody is being forced to use this app who doesn't wish to do so.
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#134 |
A garbling groftpot
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Sheesh! Unbelievable. Ok, here is a hint to the kids who have their reading matter censored.
Check out your books on the way TO school, keep them in your locker and read in the breaks. And to the parents who believe in censorship.... You don't do children any favours by hiding what happens in the real world, or by trying to stop them reading books they have chosen. Please note I am talking about published books here, not internet nasties. My two coppers' worth, please feel free to debate this, or just ignore me. |
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#135 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
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Quote:
As far as I'm concerned, the makers of Clean Reader are distributing three predetermined altered versions of copyrighted works (Clean, Cleaner, Squeaky). Doesn't matter that the original came along for the ride with those predetermined altered versions. Clean Reader decided, in advance, what words would be changed when Billy reads Book X on Setting 1. They decided for Billy and everyone else who reads Book X on Setting 1. Sounds like the distribution of unauthorized versions to me. Last edited by DiapDealer; 03-29-2015 at 01:20 PM. |
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