Amazon Rising

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Costco is pretty well known as a good employer. But they're the exception, not the rule. It's a bit disingenuous to compare Amazon to them instead of the majority of employers who treat their employees much worse than does Amazon.

My full quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I am sure there are companies that are better than Amazon (and worse as well). But they are all looking out for their own bottom line, and sacrificing their employees in some manner.

I am sure there is something to complain about at Costco too. Thus, according to some people, we have a slippery slope where Costco is "abusing" their workers, and is "evil", and we shouldn't shop there, etc.

Or we would, if it was as stylish to complain about Costco as it is to complain about Amazon.

I thought it was pretty obvious that I was saying, even relatively good employers would be complained about just as much as any other, if people were in the mood to do so. The complaints aren't actually because of their actions, but because of how people want to think about them.

People complain about Amazon and any other company because of pre-existing biases that need to be justified.

For that reason, I think I kind of had to compare Amazon to a company agreed to be far better than average to their employees. Sorry if that wasn't clear enough.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

My full quote:

I thought it was pretty obvious that I was saying, even relatively good employers would be complained about just as much as any other, if people were in the mood to do so. The complaints aren't actually because of their actions, but because of how people want to think about them.

People complain about Amazon and any other company because of pre-existing biases that need to be justified.

For that reason, I think I kind of had to compare Amazon to a company agreed to be far better than average to their employees. Sorry if that wasn't clear enough.

No, it's my fault. My apologies. I was just kind of responding through you to those who compared Amazon to Costco. Costco and Winco (an up and coming grocery chain, http://time.com/4701/walmarts-worst-nightmare/) are exceptions to the corporate "ideal" of pushing wages down to the lowest possible extent. They prove that corporations can be both successful and treat their employees well.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by rcentros

No, it's my fault. My apologies. I was just kind of responding through you to those who compared Amazon to Costco. Costco and Winco (an up and coming grocery chain, http://time.com/4701/walmarts-worst-nightmare/) are exceptions to the corporate "ideal" of pushing wages down to the lowest possible extent. They prove that corporations can be both successful and treat their employees well.

OK, then.

[speakingtohe]

An interesting article about Costco wages VS Wal-Mart, target etc. Doesn't point a finger of blame, just explains some of the factors involved.
Well written IMO and interesting.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ke-costco.html
One of the many points I was not aware of.

One final thing that's worth pointing out is that Costco doesn't even make money selling the groceries and the six person hot-tubs. Their annual membership fee revenue exceeds their net profit--which is to say that the actual business of selling stuff is operating at a loss. They're charging you an annual fee to buy stuff at or near cost. That's a model that works really well with their basically affluent customer base, and not incidentally, a model that allows you to worry a bit less about your cost of sales. Sam's Club tries to do the same thing, but caters to a lower-income clientele and makes a lot less money despite having more stores.

Costco's higher revenues are also a function of their demographic. Costco shoppers have an average income of $85,000--not surprising, because Costco tends to locate itself in affluent suburbs. Walmart shoppers are what the firm calls "value driven shoppers" which is to say, there's not a lot of spare money lying around the house, just waiting for an opportunity to buy a 6-lb wheel of Camembert. Value driven are very price conscious, and willing to forgoe things like service or artful displays in order to shave an extra 50 cents off the weekly shaving cream budget. If you've been wondering why Walmart seems serenely unworried that last Friday's labor action will touch of a boycott, this is why. If you took all the people in my twitter feed expressing excitement about a new era of labor organizing last Friday, I'd be very surprised to learn that they had spent as much as a thousand dollars between all of them at a Walmart last year.

Helen

[ProfCrash]

I can see that. We had a Costco membership for a year because it was the cheapest place to get our son's formula. (Diapers and wipes were less expensive on Amazon as a member of Amazon Mom and Subscribe and Save). We bought a new TV during that time because of the price. We had the entire family at our place for Christmas (7 adults, three teenagers, two tweens and one baby) so we bought lots of stuff in bulk.

We let the membership go because we don't need the mass quantity of stuff you get there. I know some folks who keep their memberships active and go there only for gas, I doubt that they are saving the cost of the membership but it feels like they are saving on the gas so they do it.

We will get a COSTCO membership again when there is something large that we want and we think the savings will be greater then the cost of the membership.

Plus COSTCO does a great job of selling people on the highest personal level. You get some percentage of what you spend back. But the likelihood that you make up the price difference between the memberships requires that you spend a lot more at the store.

[pidgeon92]

Ooh, it's only the two of us, but I love Costco, probably go there twice a month. It's great for staples like laundry detergent, paper towels, milk. They sell my husband's favorite Greek yogurt (Fage Fruyo) in big tubs. Excellent corned beef for sandwiches. Grape tomatoes that actually taste like tomatoes. Dress shirts for my husband for $18 a pop, that wash beautifully and wear out more slowly than the ones we used to purchase from Brooks Brothers.

I don't know if I'm saving money, but I love shopping there.

[Sydney's Mom]

There are three of us, and we do almost all our grocery shopping at Costco. There is some waste, but the quality is better than anything we can get at our local grocery store. For example, the steaks at Costco, which are choice, are $17.99 a pound, and are as good, to my taste, to the prime we buy at $34.99 a pound.

Getting back to books, what I found illogical in the Amazon is Evil, is to offer a totally unskilled job for $12.50 an hour. Yes, it would be hard to raise a family on that, but that is the rate for pickers--you have to be able to read numbers and walk. That is it. No college degree, no work experience, no people skills. Try getting that kind of comp at any other entry job.

[tubemonkey]

I heart Costco. Soon, they will be dragging out the Christmas decorations.

[Sydney's Mom]

Yes, I think I might have seen some ribbon last week.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

There are three of us, and we do almost all our grocery shopping at Costco. There is some waste, but the quality is better than anything we can get at our local grocery store. For example, the steaks at Costco, which are choice, are $17.99 a pound, and are as good, to my taste, to the prime we buy at $34.99 a pound.

Getting back to books, what I found illogical in the Amazon is Evil, is to offer a totally unskilled job for $12.50 an hour. Yes, it would be hard to raise a family on that, but that is the rate for pickers--you have to be able to read numbers and walk. That is it. No college degree, no work experience, no people skills. Try getting that kind of comp at any other entry job.

If I was going to pay $34.99 a pound for steak I would want it cooked at a pretty good restaurant and be topped with a béarnaise sauce and accompanied by delicious vegetables' and maybe a shrimp or 3

As t the books thing I believe the Costco starting wage is around $11 in the US and lower in many Canadian stores? But wage advancement is better? And you get a free Costco memberships

I don't think $12.50 or even $11.00 an hour are hardship wages for someone just starting out. Hard to raise a family on it even with a per child subsidy from the government. I do know some thrifty folks who manage to do it though and actually pull ahead. They cook their own food, shop sales, and buy only what they need or really want and the children do get their Christmas, and birthday presents.

I don't know of any jobs that pay one according to ones responsibilities and expenses so not sure where this enters into the equation.

Wages are generally only going to increase if you have skills or are willing to work to acquire them. Plus being in the right place at the right time is possibly equally important. Getting a job at Costco would probably be better for most provided that they are willing to work for advancement.

Helen

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

An interesting article about Costco wages VS Wal-Mart, target etc. Doesn't point a finger of blame, just explains some of the factors involved.

It's a good article.

But I'm also thinking about Wegman's, the number one rated grocery chain in Consumer Reports, the US nonprofit product rating magazine. They are also on best employers lists, but unlike Costco and Trader Joe's, they stock more items than other supermarkets. Pretty much, Wegman's is a WalMart-type food market (both in items stocked and price -- sometimes lower!), and a Whole Foods, in the same building.

Now, Wegman's is like Costco in that, at least in my metro area, they shun low-income neighborhoods. Nobody's perfect.

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

. . . I believe the Costco starting wage is around $11 in the US and lower in many Canadian stores? But wage advancement is better?

Apparently.

The best employers can often get away with paying less, and will. I imagine that because of their terrible reputation for high pressure and uncaring bosses, Amazon has to pay its computer programmers more. There are companies with a good reputation for how they treat programmers (Hyland Software) that are also known for having below-average salaries.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I heart Costco. Soon, they will be dragging out the Christmas decorations.

http://www2.costco.com/Browse/Produc..._115&topnav=bd

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

It's a good article.

But I'm also thinking about Wegman's, the number one rated grocery chain in Consumer Reports, the US nonprofit product rating magazine. They are also on best employers lists, but unlike Costco and Trader Joe's, they stock more items than other supermarkets. Pretty much, Wegman's is a WalMart-type food market (both in items stocked and price -- sometimes lower!), and a Whole Foods, in the same building.

Now, Wegman's is like Costco in that, at least in my metro area, they shun low-income neighborhoods. Nobody's perfect.

Well the affluent must eat too, and I doubt that Value Village has premises on Rodeo drive.

Strangely enough the Vancouver Costco is located between Chinatown and skid row.

The best employers can often get away with paying less, and will. I imagine that because of their terrible reputation for high pressure and uncaring bosses, Amazon has to pay its computer programmers more. There are companies with a good reputation for how they treat programmers (Hyland Software) that are also known for having below-average salaries.

I am not up on best employer standards. I have always applied for jobs I thought I would like and sometimes quit the first day. Either you like it or you don't and their are a hundred and one reasons for either I have found.

But last year I was thinking of retiring a bit more. I work summers and goof of in the winter, and figure without something to go to that I must go to I will become a fat blob. So I started looking at best companies to work for for part time casual employees. I was surprised at the low wages most of them offered. One was even below minimum wage.

Wage is not really a factor for me as anything over a certain amount would be clawed back in reduced government pension. But I can't see this being the case for most.

I wimped out on the issue by going back to my summer job which pays enough to make any claw back trivial, but I shall no doubt look into it again in the fall.

What is the big factor for job satisfaction I wonder? For me I think it is money, the feeling that you are at least adequate, and preferably better than adequate, and co-workers that you enjoy and who enjoy you. I don't think money is that important to me at this stage, but I would be unhappy and refuse to work in a position where I thought they were messing around with me. I always seem to get along with people I work with and for and don't have any adequacy issues at present. But mostly I have worked for small companies or individuals so am curious as to what makes for job satisfaction in an unskilled labour position in a place like Wal-Mart or Costco or Amazon.

Helen

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Barcey

http://www2.costco.com/Browse/Produc..._115&topnav=bd

yummm... that's where I get mine