MS Surface 2nd generaton

[RZetlin]

Originally Posted by pl001

No. Modern/Metro is the future and the Windows Store apps span both the desktop and mobile worlds. In under a year there are over 100,000 apps available. The Surface RT is the best selling 10" tablet not called iPad, and the Surface 2 is almost sold out. More importantly, RT gives Microsoft an ARM device that keeps the pressure on Intel and gives them better diversity in the marketplace.

People seem to assume that since RT doesn't run x86 programs it's worthless. But the fact is most consumers don't need x86 programs. RT gives these people what they need without the additional bloat and security concerns of full Windows.

100,000 Windows 8 apps is small compared to the 1 million Android apps and 900,000 iOS apps.

Microsoft have not indicated the number of Surface 2 they have in inventory so we don't know the true number of their sales yet.

Surface RT has failed to prove what it can do better that Apple iPad and Android tablet can do as well.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by ApK

It gives people what MICROSOFT THINKS they need, and if history is any indication of how good a job MS does compared to Apple and Android in that space, then I agree: Microsoft should dump the RT system and focus on the Pro all together.

Lots of these discussions remind me very much of the history with Microsoft's XBOX.
They had been ridiculed for quite a while and have burned serious money in the beginning.
Well...Sony has stopped laughing about XBOX long ago...

I have no idea about the business plan of Microsoft.
Does anyone for example know, how many Office licenses they've sold in addition because of their tablets?
I have the Office 365 flatrate. I never would have gotten that for any other system. But for my Surface Pro, it perfectly made sense.

[pl001]

Originally Posted by RZetlin

100,000 Windows 8 apps is small compared to the 1 million Android apps and 900,000 iOS apps.

Microsoft have not indicated the number of Surface 2 they have in inventory so we don't know the true number of their sales yet.

Surface RT has failed to prove what it can do better that Apple iPad and Android tablet can do as well.

What do you expect? To start out with a million apps at launch? They have grown their store faster than Apple or Google. It has a ways to go, but it has exceeded expectations.

And RT has proven itself:

1. Best tablet browser
2. Best support
3. Best build quality
4. Best multitasking
5. Best office productivity
6. Best file management
7. Best connectivity using industry standards

It's not perfect by any means, but for crying out loud, stop spreading FUD and give some credit where it is due.

[pl001]

Originally Posted by ApK

It gives people what MICROSOFT THINKS they need, and if history is any indication of how good a job MS does compared to Apple and Android in that space, then I agree: Microsoft should dump the RT system and focus on the Pro all together.

Yeah, because nobody has been wanting multitasking, file management, and Office in a tablet.

As far as history, Android's is short and they have a real issue now in that they only have one OEM making money with them, and that OEM is developing their own OS. As for Apple, their business model ensures they will always eventually end up a niche player, as they have been in the past.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by pl001

What do you expect? To start out with a million apps at launch? They have grown their store faster than Apple or Google. It has a ways to go, but it has exceeded expectations.

And RT has proven itself:

1. Best tablet browser
2. Best support
3. Best build quality
4. Best multitasking
5. Best office productivity
6. Best file management
7. Best connectivity using industry standards

It's not perfect by any means, but for crying out loud, stop spreading FUD and give some credit where it is due.

Proved... to whom? What proof? A statement doesn't make a fact... it's just the same as the rabid pro and con Apple/Android groups... if it's not perfect then it must be disastrous... you could at least have qualified your statements as IMHO but "proven..." not yet... but it may happen (and the horse may talk.)

[pl001]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Proved... to whom? What proof? A statement doesn't make a fact... it's just the same as the rabid pro and con Apple/Android groups... if it's not perfect then it must be disastrous... you could at least have qualified your statements as IMHO but "proven..." not yet... but it may happen (and the horse may talk.)

Point taken, that was a poor choice of words. I was responding to the comment that it didn't do anything better. Items 1-3 are debatable I suppose. 5 depends on what you need, and is really due to having a full Office suite. But 4, 6, and 7 are clear areas of superiority.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by pl001

And RT has proven itself:

1. Best tablet browser
2. Best support
3. Best build quality
4. Best multitasking
5. Best office productivity
6. Best file management
7. Best connectivity using industry standards

Problem is:
Majority of users/buyers obviously doesn't care much about the OS.
It's 99% about apps.
Else my beloved BlackBerry PlayBook and the equally advanced HP TouchPad, about 2 years ago, would have been way more successful. At their time, their respective OS was way ahead of iOS or Android. Still: Lack of apps killed them both rather quickly.

If I look at reviews in iTunes or Google Play or now in the Microsoft Store, I get the impression, the average user is about 15 years old, has very limited cash resources ("for such a high price of 3 Euros I would have expected a way better game") and mainly is interested in games. One just has to check out the top 100 Apps: Angry Birds and the likes.
You don't need an advanced OS for that, nor multi-tasking and the likes.
But you have to offer the majority of the top 1000 apps...

[WillysJeepMan]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Proved... to whom? What proof? A statement doesn't make a fact... it's just the same as the rabid pro and con Apple/Android groups... if it's not perfect then it must be disastrous... you could at least have qualified your statements as IMHO but "proven..." not yet... but it may happen (and the horse may talk.)

Why are you calling out pl001 for his claim of "proof" and yet ignored RZetlin's claim?

Originally Posted by RZetlin

Surface RT has failed to prove what it can do better that Apple iPad and Android tablet can do as well.

Just because you can't prove a negative doesn't give one a free pass in making THOSE claims.

Regarding...
1. Best tablet browser - depending upon your definition of "best", I'd say that a tablet browser that has the option of displaying a full "desktop version" of a website, play flash, and supports adblock is better than those that don't.

2. Best support - too nebulous to comment intelligently on.

3. Best build quality - Again very subjective, but a sleek vaporMg casing with gorilla glass certainly ranks near the top (if not AT the top)

4. Best multitasking - again, depending upon your definition of "best", I'd say that a tablet that can have multiple windows visible all playing smoothly simultaneously is better than tablets that can't do that.

5. Best office productivity - MS Office that is missing macro support in Excel... are you honestly going to argue that there is something better than that on a tablet? (If you suggest something like remote desktop or splashtop, you'll lose credibility)

6. Best file management - iOS has no file management. I could agree that Android's file management is on par with WinRT.

7. Best connectivity using industry standards - again, a tablet that supports full USB, mini-HDMI, and microSD is better than tablets that don't.

Frankly, I dislike these "well my dad can beat your dad" type of shoving matches.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by RZetlin

100,000 Windows 8 apps is small compared to the 1 million Android apps and 900,000 iOS apps.

And how many of those 1 million apps are really used?

I'm considering a RT to replace my aging tablet but I also want a pro for the legacy support... But the screensize of the RT (I want 7 or 8") and the price of the pro are stopping me atm...

I recently bought a Nokia Lumia 920 and I must say I prefer windows over Android. (though I still love my Flyer...)

[melmac]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

If I look at reviews in iTunes or Google Play or now in the Microsoft Store, I get the impression, the average user is about 15 years old, has very limited cash resources ("for such a high price of 3 Euros I would have expected a way better game") and mainly is interested in games. One just has to check out the top 100 Apps: Angry Birds and the likes.
You don't need an advanced OS for that, nor multi-tasking and the likes.
But you have to offer the majority of the top 1000 apps...

Agree, I would be much more excited about my upcoming Surface purchase it the Store had Candy Crush #totallyaddicted

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by melmac

Agree, I would be much more excited about my upcoming Surface purchase it the Store had Candy Crush #totallyaddicted

OT: I've heard you can play it in IE in desktop mode on the Surface. No idea if it's true or not, I don't play it much on my iPhone so I'm only on level 121, I have it more because my nephew and some other family members like to play so I send them extra lives and help them move to new areas.

[melmac]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

OT: I've heard you can play it in IE in desktop mode on the Surface. No idea if it's true or not, I don't play it much on my iPhone so I'm only on level 121, I have it more because my nephew and some other family members like to play so I send them extra lives and help them move to new areas.

I know you can play in IE through Facebook but I prefer in App play currently stuck at level 165. There's a lot of games that can be played in fbook or via websites but the Apps would be preferred. There really doesn't seem to be a lot of incentive fore the various developers to move on it. Not sure how complicated it is to port over that would be way over my IT knowledge level

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by WillysJeepMan

Why are you calling out pl001 for his claim of "proof" and yet ignored RZetlin's claim?

...Snip...

Frankly, I dislike these "well my dad can beat your dad" type of shoving matches.

Wow... even pl001 didn't object to my comment and realised that I wasn't making a personal comment but actually criticising the "mine is better than yours" statements so I'd guess that kinda matches your last comment - "Frankly, I dislike these "well my dad can beat your dad" type of shoving matches." - which is pretty much what I said... and I commented on pl001 because I'd just read it (and didn't comment on RZetlin because I hadn't just read it)
I don't actually re-read the entire length of every thread every time there is a new post... do you???

[ApK]

Originally Posted by pl001

Yeah, because nobody has been wanting multitasking, file management, and Office in a tablet.

As far as history, Android's is short and they have a real issue now in that they only have one OEM making money with them, and that OEM is developing their own OS. As for Apple, their business model ensures they will always eventually end up a niche player, as they have been in the past.

Apple and android both have multitasking. They don't have multi-windowing, and I have not heard a clamor from people who want to reduce their already small mobile screens down to some even smaller subdivided chunks.
In any case, the Pro can do this as well, and better, since you'd have a wider array of apps to choose to put in those windows.

File management? Android's is fine, but again, very little clamor from market for the ability to screw up their files systems on their mobile devices like they screw them up on their desktops. Apple proved that most mobile device consumer users don't want to know or think about file management, and they don't have to.

Office. Yes, Real MS Office is indeed a plus for many. I expect that is better on the Pro, too.
Many Android and Apple user would like it, no doubt, though many of us get what we need with the many inexpensive Office-compatible viewer apps out there.

History? Go look at how MS has taken the mobile device market by storm with the Zune, and Windows Phone 7 and 8, and all those previous Windows-based tablets and convertibles.
Not.

ApK

[ApK]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Lots of these discussions remind me very much of the history with Microsoft's XBOX.
They had been ridiculed for quite a while and have burned serious money in the beginning.
Well...Sony has stopped laughing about XBOX long ago...

I'm not sure I understand. I don't recall XBOX being ridiculed. I'm not really up on the game console scene, but IIRC, XBOX, with Halo, was a success from day one.
I had one.

Conversely, MS has continually failed to capture the mobile market, despite several attempts.

The Pro seems like a stand-out device. The RT seems like another misstep.
Maybe one that can be evolved to find a seriously successful place in the market, but why?

ApK