Rapidshare loses court battle against German booksellers - Page 9

Istvan diVega · 08-22-2013, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

The fact that most people (at least in the US) exceed speed limits doesn't make that OK either.

But then I never said a thing about rights and wrongs.

HarryT · 08-23-2013, 04:27 AM

Perhaps people just tend to assume that everyone behaves like they do. Honest people assume that the majority of people are honest; dishonest people assume that the majority are dishonest. I've certainly had people offer me pirated books and be quite offended when I've said "no". The response is typically along the lines of "but everybody does it", to which I reply "not me".

Istvan diVega · 08-23-2013, 06:16 AM

I always try to assume nothing (and sometimes fail, of course), but to go by experience or the available information. There are no statistics on this that I know of, so experience is what I have and it tells me that pretty much everyone's a pirate. Even the people who most loudly protest that they aren't, but that they're honest, law-abiding folks, much like someone here, are generally pirates if you dig just a little beneath the shiny veneer.

It may be just a song or three, it may be an article or two off the web or it may be those pictures they snagged from that snazzy site that time without thinking of it. Whatever it is or was, like speakingtohe reminded us back on the previous page we've already established what they are and now we're just negotiating the price.

Quite frankly I'm betting you're one of us too, despite the holier-than-thou protestations.

Ninjalawyer · 08-23-2013, 12:55 PM

That's wonderful and all, but maybe basing copyright laws on what you anecdotally experience is at best irrelevant and at worst harmful. I would say laws should incorporate the benefit of the doubt to be just - assume that most people are law-abiding until evidence to the contrary is supplied.

Given your moral purity, I assume you've received permission to use that Dalek photo as your avatar (or are the person that took it). I don't expect a response on this, but it does make me think of what should be done about casual and inadvertent copyright infringement; I would think such people should be punished harshly to teach others to be more vigilant in monitoring their own behaviour.

HarryT · 08-23-2013, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer

That's wonderful and all, but maybe basing copyright laws on what you anecdotally experience is at best irrelevant and at worst harmful. I would say laws should incorporate the benefit of the doubt to be just - assume that most people are law-abiding until evidence to the contrary is supplied.

I don't know how many times in this thread I've said that I do indeed believe that most people are honest. I'm not the one saying "everyone's a pirate".

Istvan diVega · 08-23-2013, 01:22 PM

No, but you are saying that every copyright violator, of whatever notoriety or lack of such, is a fundamentally dishonest person. Which equates exactly to saying that most people are dishonest.

HomeInMyShoes · 08-23-2013, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I don't know how many times in this thread I've said that I do indeed believe that most people are honest. I'm not the one saying "everyone's a pirate".

Except on September 19th. Mark it on your calendar it be important ye scurvy dog.

OtterBooks · 08-23-2013, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Perhaps people just tend to assume that everyone behaves like they do. Honest people assume that the majority of people are honest; dishonest people assume that the majority are dishonest. I've certainly had people offer me pirated books and be quite offended when I've said "no". The response is typically along the lines of "but everybody does it", to which I reply "not me".

I don't think they're offended so much as they're made uncomfortable. You've made them self-conscious about their behavior, which they should be, at least so far as everyone should question their own actions. edit:they're/their, whoops

Ninjalawyer · 08-23-2013, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I don't know how many times in this thread I've said that I do indeed believe that most people are honest. I'm not the one saying "everyone's a pirate".

Oh, I know. But you have suggested harsh(er) penalties for copyright infringement, and my comment had more to do with the suggestion that laws should assume the best of people rather than the worst in deciding what penalties are appropriate.

speakingtohe · 08-23-2013, 09:04 PM

How about a multiple of the amount with a cap on it. For example pirate one $40 book and it is $300, pirate $100 or greater it is $1,000.

Community service would be a big deterrent for most fundamentally honest people, as they would be inconvenienced and we know how much we hate that

plus maybe having to explain why or excuse it away. ANd not something easily forgotten, plus it might do some good for the community.

Helen

Istvan diVega · 08-23-2013, 09:15 PM

How about re-working the whole antiquated and long obsolete copyright system, making it work for the 2000s instead of the 1800s?

Ken.Hagdal · 08-29-2013, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Not only civil, but more cut and dried.

Does anyone really know how easy or difficult it is to police a large online storage website. Are their studies done?

Technically, it's not complicated to implement. Youtube has algorithms that compare the videos uploaded against a database of song samples. Works so well no matter the compression used that I received warnings in the past for including less than 30s of some songs. (was meant to promote little known bands).

If we're just talking books, extracting the text from the files would be trifles in comparison.

Abtacha · 08-29-2013, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken.Hagdal

[...]
If we're just talking books, extracting the text from the files would be trifles in comparison.

That assumes however that all uploads are plain text instead of password protected rar/zip/whatever archives.

Filehosters could of course restrict the allowed formats, but even for perfectly legal usage I'm certain not everyone wants to upload their files unencrypted.

Ken.Hagdal · 08-29-2013, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abtacha

That assumes however that all uploads are plain text instead of password protected rar/zip/whatever archives.

Filehosters could of course restrict the allowed formats, but even for perfectly legal usage I'm certain not everyone wants to upload their files unencrypted.

Good point. But encryption would make it a harder for those meaning to share copyrighted work widely as they would have to propagate the password in some way.

murraypaul · 09-03-2013, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken.Hagdal

Technically, it's not complicated to implement. Youtube has algorithms that compare the videos uploaded against a database of song samples. Works so well no matter the compression used that I received warnings in the past for including less than 30s of some songs. (was meant to promote little known bands).

Works so well? That is a joke.
Youtube is probable the biggest copyright violator in the whole world.
Yes, it is used by record companies to officially release some songs, but there are masses that are not sanctioned.
Try searching for "full album".

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08-23-2013, 04:27 AM	#122
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,550 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Perhaps people just tend to assume that everyone behaves like they do. Honest people assume that the majority of people are honest; dishonest people assume that the majority are dishonest. I've certainly had people offer me pirated books and be quite offended when I've said "no". The response is typically along the lines of "but everybody does it", to which I reply "not me".

08-23-2013, 06:16 AM	#123
Istvan diVega Inharmonious Posts: 416 Karma: 2157616 Join Date: Jan 2013 Device: Sony PRS-950, Galaxy Tab 2 10.1	I always try to assume nothing (and sometimes fail, of course), but to go by experience or the available information. There are no statistics on this that I know of, so experience is what I have and it tells me that pretty much everyone's a pirate. Even the people who most loudly protest that they aren't, but that they're honest, law-abiding folks, much like someone here, are generally pirates if you dig just a little beneath the shiny veneer. It may be just a song or three, it may be an article or two off the web or it may be those pictures they snagged from that snazzy site that time without thinking of it. Whatever it is or was, like speakingtohe reminded us back on the previous page we've already established what they are and now we're just negotiating the price. Quite frankly I'm betting you're one of us too, despite the holier-than-thou protestations.

08-23-2013, 12:55 PM	#124
Ninjalawyer Guru Posts: 826 Karma: 18573626 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Touch, Nexus 7 (2013)	That's wonderful and all, but maybe basing copyright laws on what you anecdotally experience is at best irrelevant and at worst harmful. I would say laws should incorporate the benefit of the doubt to be just - assume that most people are law-abiding until evidence to the contrary is supplied. Given your moral purity, I assume you've received permission to use that Dalek photo as your avatar (or are the person that took it). I don't expect a response on this, but it does make me think of what should be done about casual and inadvertent copyright infringement; I would think such people should be punished harshly to teach others to be more vigilant in monitoring their own behaviour.

08-23-2013, 01:22 PM	#126
Istvan diVega Inharmonious Posts: 416 Karma: 2157616 Join Date: Jan 2013 Device: Sony PRS-950, Galaxy Tab 2 10.1	No, but you are saying that every copyright violator, of whatever notoriety or lack of such, is a fundamentally dishonest person. Which equates exactly to saying that most people are dishonest.

08-23-2013, 09:04 PM	#130
speakingtohe Wizard Posts: 4,812 Karma: 26912940 Join Date: Apr 2010 Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet	How about a multiple of the amount with a cap on it. For example pirate one $40 book and it is $300, pirate $100 or greater it is $1,000. Community service would be a big deterrent for most fundamentally honest people, as they would be inconvenienced and we know how much we hate that plus maybe having to explain why or excuse it away. ANd not something easily forgotten, plus it might do some good for the community. Helen

08-23-2013, 09:15 PM	#131
Istvan diVega Inharmonious Posts: 416 Karma: 2157616 Join Date: Jan 2013 Device: Sony PRS-950, Galaxy Tab 2 10.1	How about re-working the whole antiquated and long obsolete copyright system, making it work for the 2000s instead of the 1800s?

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