What are your red flags?

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by Alyssa Miranda

This is great writing - absolutely stunning, but to get its full impact you should read it as formatted by the author.

I actually took the time to read the thing. There are 1 inch margins on each side, so the text is squeezed into a column one inch wide. The first half of the story (it's quite short, or I wouldn't have bothered) was just some depressed guy sort of feeling like people were following him. After that, it got almost interesting. Still awful, of course. He hides in a hospital for weeks moving from one waiting room to the next, sort of blending into the lives of the other visitors. It's never revealed why people were stalking him, apparently, the stalkers got bored and moved on.

The blurb says "Find out what these men want from him and where he goes to find out." That's a strange thing to put in a blurb, because it really doesn't give you any information about the story. But we never do find out what these men want from him. Instead, one of "these men" talks to him very briefly, and says something vague like "You think it's going to be one way, but it's going to be the other way." Then nothing. We never find out what the one way or the other is; nothing happens with his stalkers.

If you're going to explicitly say "find out" in the blurb, that's a promise that the reader will find this out. But we do find out where he goes, it's kind of obvious, he goes to an ICU waiting room.

I guess the best I can say for this book is that I've actually seen worse.

Oh, the book ranks #4 in free medical fiction books. That looks impressive until you see there are only nine books in that category.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

That's... precious. I had to look inside. Excerpt:
I tried to make sure I included all the typos from the original and not add any new ones. Original is indented, not line-between-paragraphs.

Gak!

This pointed out a recent "red-flag" for me...first person present tense for the entire novel. I muddled my way through The Time-Traveller's Wife because the story was compelling, but most days, if it's FPPT, I refuse to even purchase it, no matter how compelling the blurb is.

I have lots of other personal red-flags, but this excerpt reminded me how much I hate FPPT.

[AlbertaCowboy]

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

Gak!

This pointed out a recent "red-flag" for me...first person present tense for the entire novel. I muddled my way through The Time-Traveller's Wife because the story was compelling, but most days, if it's FPPT, I refuse to even purchase it, no matter how compelling the blurb is.

I have lots of other personal red-flags, but this excerpt reminded me how much I hate FPPT.

This this this this this!

I had to fight my way through the Hunger Games trilogy (which I really enjoyed otherwise), but I find Present-Tense (first person or otherwise) so jarring that it takes something really well written and original to make me finish the book.

[Joykins]

Actually it's 2nd person present that really gets to me.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Joykins

Actually it's 2nd person present that really gets to me.

So long since I have taken grammar I had to look up 2nd person present tense. Can't say I have ever noticed whether I dislike books written this way, but I was quite smitten with Zork once upon a time

Helen

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Joykins

Actually it's 2nd person present that really gets to me.

I don't believe I've ever seen a book written in second person, past or present. Would you give some examples?

I am not terribly fond of present tense in general, but I wouldn't rule something out just because it's present tense. I find it distracting because unless or until I get swept up in the story, I keep wondering just why the author chose it.

[frddgls]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I don't believe I've ever seen a book written in second person, past or present. Would you give some examples?

I am not terribly fond of present tense in general, but I wouldn't rule something out just because it's present tense. I find it distracting because unless or until I get swept up in the story, I keep wondering just why the author chose it.

Erin Morgenstern's The Night Circus starts in second person present tense. I don't know if it continues that way for the whole book because I couldn't make myself read more that the first two pages.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I don't believe I've ever seen a book written in second person, past or present. Would you give some examples?


I am not terribly fond of present tense in general, but I wouldn't rule something out just because it's present tense. I find it distracting because unless or until I get swept up in the story, I keep wondering just why the author chose it.

This thread gave me a good idea of what it is about.

http://www.writingforums.org/showthread.php?t=33401

Helen

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I don't believe I've ever seen a book written in second person, past or present. Would you give some examples?

I am not terribly fond of present tense in general, but I wouldn't rule something out just because it's present tense. I find it distracting because unless or until I get swept up in the story, I keep wondering just why the author chose it.

There are very few books; I'm told "If On a Winter's Night a Traveller" by Italo Calvino is 2nd person.

I did a set of recommendations of <a href="http://elf.dreamwidth.org/344152.html#cutid2">fanfic written in 2nd person</a>; a couple of them are classic fairy tales. (In 2nd person future tense.)

2nd person is good for:

• Unreliable narrators,
• Disturbing themes where 1st or 3rd would leave the reader too distant to get the full emotional impact,
• Introspective stories about characters who don't do introspection.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by frddgls

Erin Morgenstern's The Night Circus starts in second person present tense. I don't know if it continues that way for the whole book because I couldn't make myself read more that the first two pages.

I just looked at it at Amazon; it seems as if the opening is second person present and then it switches to third person present. I'd be OK with second person in that limited way--bringing the reader into the story.

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

There are very few books; I'm told "If On a Winter's Night a Traveller" by Italo Calvino is 2nd person.

I did a set of recommendations of <a href="http://elf.dreamwidth.org/344152.html#cutid2">fanfic written in 2nd person</a>; a couple of them are classic fairy tales. (In 2nd person future tense.)

2nd person is good for:

• Unreliable narrators,
• Disturbing themes where 1st or 3rd would leave the reader too distant to get the full emotional impact,
• Introspective stories about characters who don't do introspection.

I also looked at the Calvino book at Amazon--it too seems to start with an introductory section in second person, then shift to first.

In small doses it can be effective, I suppose, but for a whole book? It feels like the commentary you get at the beginning of a game ("You receive a letter and must go and save your friend ..."), or a Choose-You-Own Adventure.

[bgalbrecht]

Charles Stross' Halting State is written in 2nd person present tense, and I think the sequel Rule 34 is also.

[cghipp]

Weren't the old "Choose Your Own Adventure" books written in second person present tense? A while back I was talking to my fifth-grade daughter about the different tenses, and that was the only example I could come up with off the top of my head.

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I don't believe I've ever seen a book written in second person, past or present. Would you give some examples?

I am not terribly fond of present tense in general, but I wouldn't rule something out just because it's present tense. I find it distracting because unless or until I get swept up in the story, I keep wondering just why the author chose it.

I put down Halting State by Charles Stross because of it, and I usually enjoy his stuff a lot.

[Rbneader]

I actually like 2nd-person POV. It can be very good when done right, particularly if you want to surprise or create mysteries.

That said, it's much harder than the standard 3rd-person / random-omniscience that's taken over fiction writing, because any breaks from the POV stand out more and authors have to pay attention to POV. It's not like 3rd-person where authors can stick in omniscience whenever it's convenient / they forget what POV they were using.

OT: Sloppiness bothers me. Switching POVs (particularly sudden random omniscience) annoys me a lot. So does bad characterization or sudden plot changes. Same thing goes for grammar or spelling - I'm fine with a few issues, but if there's too many they get distracting and I lose interest. If the writing, story or characters aren't important enough for the author to pay attention, I don't really want to waste my time paying attention.

Also, I'll put a book down or edit the book (Sigil is awesome! As is whiteout) if I run into a sex scene. If I was interested in that, I wouldn't be reading.

[caleb72]

Originally Posted by Rbneader

Also, I'll put a book down or edit the book (Sigil is awesome! As is whiteout) if I run into a sex scene. If I was interested in that, I wouldn't be reading.

You would actually edit out a scene of the book? I've read of people making formatting corrections and even corrections to typos, but that's the first time I've read of someone removing narrative. Interesting.