If You Think The Cost Of 'Piracy' Is High, What About The Cost Of Enforcement?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by BenBanned

Anyone steaming from the ears yet?

Not at all, but I suspect that when you have to start earning a living yourself, you may then have a little more respect for the incomes of those from whom you are taking without paying.

[markbot]

Originally Posted by Jaden

But where's the relation? Using public transport without paying is quite similar - risk of being caught is about the same. But they will charge you 40 Euro (even if the ticket would have been 2 Euro) and if you are caught about 3 times in one year, you will be taken to court.

Of course you will have to be fined more than the cost of one song. But not several thousand times the cost of that song.

If you download a chart sampler and get fined 2000 Euro for each of the 18 songs, that might ruin you. And I guess in many cases, if they really wanted to deter people from piracy, making them doing social work for about 20 hours for each of the 18 songs would teach people and would help society. But of course that would not help the music industry in the short run, but maybe in the long run. (Then again, maybe not...)

Yeah, they usually settle for a lot less than 20K euros per song...they may settle for 2000 in total with you. But here's the thing...it may have actually cost them $500K to make that album...so if you steal the album they charge the cost of the whole thing you stole....in a sense.

The harder it is to enforce some law the higher the fine needs to be to deter someone....economically speaking....other wise no one would obey the law.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by BenBanned

Being of this generation, I agree 100%.
If it truly is an entire generation then say goodbye to the current system.
I have zero patience for anyone or anything that comes between me and knowledge. And good luck "educating" the youth, we know that our actions have a negative effect on the way things work.
"Crisis precipitates change"


Anyone steaming from the ears yet?

The only thing steaming is that pile of bulls&*t that you posted.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by markbot

Yeah, they usually settle for a lot less than 20K euros per song...they may settle for 2000 in total with you. But here's the thing...it may have actually cost them $500K to make that album...so if you steal the album they charge the cost of the whole thing you stole....in a sense.

The harder it is to enforce some law the higher the fine needs to be to deter someone....economically speaking....other wise no one would obey the law.

So if you use public transport once without paying you should be fined the cost of the bus? What about the cost of the street? Wage of the bus driver?

Not that I'm saying either is okay, but if you download a song, you don't "steal" the song. They still have it afterwards and they can still sell copies to other people. You illegally obtain a copy and the "right" to listen to it - but not the song itself (and the rights to receive royalties for it). So charging the cost of the production of the album sounds kind of ridiculous to me.

I can understand why they do it, but I'm quite sure that higher and higher fines will not work, as it does not work to harass paying customers by having them sit through spots they can't skip... Of course if people can pay them, it will get them some money, so if that is what they intend... But if they intend to stop people from downloading stuff illegally, this is not the best course...

[miguel1626]

Originally Posted by markbot

Yeah, they usually settle for a lot less than 20K euros per song...they may settle for 2000 in total with you. But here's the thing...it may have actually cost them $500K to make that album...so if you steal the album they charge the cost of the whole thing you stole....in a sense.

Indeed. And a teenager who downloads a couple thousand songs should have to pay the entire GDP of the United States.

Escalating punishments, you know... Makes as much sense as charging the production cost of the albums the putative teenager "stole," and the 8th amendment be damned!

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by miguel1626

Indeed. And a teenager who downloads a couple thousand songs should have to pay the entire GDP of the United States.

Escalating punishments, you know... Makes as much sense as charging the production cost of the albums the putative teenager "stole," and the 8th amendment be damned!

Alternatively, go to gaol for the next five years alongside home invaders, serious assault perps and other upstanding citizens.

[BenBanned]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The only thing steaming is that pile of bulls&*t that you posted.

charming...

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Alternatively, go to gaol for the next five years alongside home invaders, serious assault perps and other upstanding citizens.

Just ship them all to that penal colony down under!

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Just ship them all to that penal colony down under!

Now that I consider offensive.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Now that I consider offensive.

I might have been talking about Patagonia.

[sabredog]

No, you made your point extremely clear.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by sabredog

No, you made your point extremely clear.

Jesus, it was a joke!

[miguel1626]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Alternatively, go to gaol for the next five years alongside home invaders, serious assault perps and other upstanding citizens.

Perhaps the death penalty would be in order. That would have a HUGE deterrent effect, and save the content creators from bankruptcy - and FIGHT TERRORISM AT THE SAME TIME!! Win-win!!

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by markbot

The harder it is to enforce some law the higher the fine needs to be to deter someone....economically speaking....other wise no one would obey the law.

The problem isn't one of enforcement, it is one of proving guilt. Doing that is expensive and so far hasn't led to many convictions because the evidence presented was so poor. Hence the move towards removing the need for any evidence and having presumed guilt upon accusation. What could possibly go wrong with that?

Originally Posted by BenBanned

And good luck "educating" the youth, we know that our actions have a negative effect on the way things work.

Anyone steaming from the ears yet?

Nope. We older folks have been there and done that. Here's what my father's genertion had to say:

Originally Posted by The Times they are a Changin'

Come mothers and fathers throughout the land
And don't criticize what you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one if you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a' changin'!

And how much did the world actually change? Not very much it turns out because the revolutionaries grew up. My generation had it's own ideals. I was so disconnected from my generation that I can't figure out what those ideals were, but there was certainly a lot of intergenerational strife. (The people who I hung out with though that computers would be the great equalizer, believed that information wanted to be free, and some ended up being movers and shakers behind FLOSS. Yet I don't think that was typical of my generation as a whole.) The thing is, we ended up growing up.

I'm not saying that the world shouldn't change. I am saying that it is easy to be a revolutionary when you see injustice but don't understand why the world works as it does. And once you realize why the world works as it does, you will probably realize that change usually just shuffles around the injustices rather than removes them.