DRM Handcuffs - Page 9

kennyc · 09-26-2011, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Coulson

How ???

Huh? This was directed at the Tool. He's claiming to support dissent so he should support dissent against DRM.

Graham Coulson · 09-26-2011, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

Huh? This was directed at the Tool. He's claiming to support dissent so he should support dissent against DRM.

Good point !

cfrizz · 09-26-2011, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I cannot help but wonder where DRM has stopped anyone from reading. The entitlement to copy and/or redistribute a pbook has never been a hot issue.

I have never bought a book where the main purpose was to be able to lend it or resell it. I have done both, but I bought it because I wanted to read the book.Helen

Helen I have NEVER purchased an ebook with the thought of wanting to lend it, sell it, or upload it. I don't even do this with my paper books.

Nor should I be forced to only read non-drm books that I am not interested in simply because they don't have drm. Which is why stripping came into being.

I used to feel the exact same way about drm not being a problem. But the more I thought about it and the more problems that I have come across that other people have had with drm I have changed my mind.

Right now I have a Sony reader. Now say that Amazon comes up with an ereader that is outstanding and I want to switch to that instead. Am I supposed to repurchase over 300 books from Amazon just so I can load them on to the new reader? I DON'T THINK SO!

I don't want to be locked into any particular store, ereader, or ecosystem.

I should be able to purchase ebooks at any store that sells them and load them on to any/all readers that that I have now and in the future.

Right now the publishers and stores have made that impossible because they don't want any competition, they want to be able to control what we do and where we spend our money.

I simply refuse to be controlled in this way.

EowynCarter · 09-26-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

I used to feel the exact same way about drm not being a problem. But the more I thought about it and the more problems that I have come across that other people have had with drm I have changed my mind.

I didn't had much problem with adept, only getting rid of drm to tweak the ePub a bit (mainly setting the margin right), and to be on the safe side.
Until adept slapped me in the face, not once, but twice.
The first time : you've use the 3 download you're allowed. Luckily, i finally found again the book i though i had lost.
The second time was that authorization mistake.

mldavis2 · 09-26-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Right now the publishers and stores have made that impossible because they don't want any competition, they want to be able to control what we do and where we spend our money.

Isn't that the ultimate goal and result of the free enterprise system? Competition only works when there is some.

So you can't put GM parts on a Ford, Toyota parts on your Honda or BMW parts on your Benz, but you can decide which semi-monopoly you wish to support.

emellaich · 09-26-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speakingtohe
I cannot help but wonder where DRM has stopped anyone from reading. The entitlement to copy and/or redistribute a pbook has never been a hot issue.

I have never bought a book where the main purpose was to be able to lend it or resell it. I have done both, but I bought it because I wanted to read the book.Helen

My sensitivity to the ability to keep my ebooks over time (DRM issues) has grown as I have gotten older.

My life experiences include videos abandoned because of format obsolescence. A library of Beta tapes (I miss "who framed Roger rabbit") lost. Ditto for VHS. Who knows how long my DVDs will last with BLU ray and online coming along.

Several online music stores have entered and left the market. This meant that any songs you purchased were limited to the machines you initially downloaded them to. Luckily, a simple roundtrip to CD/mp3 retained your backup rights to these songs.

Similar things have already happened with books. My allergies meant that I couldn't reread my 20 year old, musty paperbacks anymore. I had to leave them behind when I converted to digital many years ago. Many of my old favorites are still not available as ebooks and I can't read them anymore. For those that are available, it really doesn't seem right that I have to repurchase them to reread them. Even in the digital world we have already seen format obsolescence. Amazon and others originally entered the markets with formats that are no longer available and no longer supported. Any books you purchased in those formats are not readable today.

So, I have already lost access to many previous works. As someone who enjoys re-reading favorite works, I would rather invest time in books that I can re-access over the years than in books that are one-read only.

anamardoll · 09-26-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I cannot help but wonder where DRM has stopped anyone from reading. The entitlement to copy and/or redistribute a pbook has never been a hot issue.

Helen

Helen, meet Ana. Ana, Helen. Hello. 'Ello.

Ana owns 5 different eReaders. *waves* (7 if you count Ana's phone and computer.)
Ana buys from over a dozen different eBook stores. *sheepish*

Ana could spend her remaining brain cells remembering which book goes with which eReader and always picking up the correct one when she heads out the door to her Very Important Doctor Visits, but that could be conceivably quite onerous.

Ana would encourage Helen to grok on to the fact that "DRM removal" does not need to have anything to do with sharing a book with another human being. Hello. 'Ello.

kennyc · 09-26-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mldavis2

Isn't that the ultimate goal and result of the free enterprise system? Competition only works when there is some.

So you can't put GM parts on a Ford, Toyota parts on your Honda or BMW parts on your Benz, but you can decide which semi-monopoly you wish to support.

Sort of but not really.... I can use any Gasoline and/or Oil I want and most of the parts are from thirdparty builders anyway so are generally available from other sources.

anamardoll · 09-26-2011, 11:02 AM

Also, I want to give KennyC a standing ovation for services rendered earlier in the thread. I'd give karma, but I used up my allowance for today already.

kennyc · 09-26-2011, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Also, I want to give KennyC a standing ovation for services rendered earlier in the thread. I'd give karma, but I used up my allowance for today already.

Wha??? huh??? Whadidido?

Enjoy!

Pinecone · 09-26-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonetools

I'm a bit worried at those who blithely advise that its totally legally OK to remove DRM from DRMed ebooks and its the only sensible course of action to take.
For one, the provisions of the DCMA actually do bar DRM stripping explicitly. There is a fair use exception , but its not clear that it covers all the uses Mobile Readers say it covers. Backup and archive yes: sharing with others no. Even then, that's just my opinion; a federal court judge might say no.

Where have MR members advocated SHARING of the books? Nowhere in this discussion or any other I have read.

The support is for DRM stripping for format changing and for easier back up and file handling, NOT for sharing.

There is no arguement that sharing of the ebooks is not legal.

crossi · 09-26-2011, 11:29 AM

I have nearly $3000 invested in ebooks already. Most of those I had bought previously in paper. I am NOT going to have to buy them again just for an obsolete reader. And just for the record I have no intention or wish to share my books, just to keep them.

kennyc · 09-26-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossi

I have nearly $3000 invested in ebooks already. Most of those I had bought previously in paper. I am NOT going to have to buy them again just for an obsolete reader. And just for the record I have no intention or wish to share my books, just to keep them.

This got me to thinking.....just as a rough estimate I think I'm at about the same level of investment. And I think there are others here way ahead of me in the value of their ebook libraries!

HarryT · 09-26-2011, 11:37 AM

I've spent a heck of a lot more than $3000 on eBooks - probably at least 5x that. But, unlike some, I don't consider it to be an "investment". That, to me, means something that will increase in value, and which I could subsequently sell and make a profit. For me, books are entertainment, and I'm willing to spend money to entertain myself, but I don't kid myself that I'm "investing" that money. I'll never get it back again.

kennyc · 09-26-2011, 11:46 AM

Well, yeah I don't consider it a "financial" investment as I would never sell them, but certainly an intellectual one.

09-26-2011, 11:46 AM	#135
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,897 Karma: 119230421 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire	Well, yeah I don't consider it a "financial" investment as I would never sell them, but certainly an intellectual one. Last edited by kennyc; 09-26-2011 at 11:50 AM.

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09-26-2011, 11:02 AM	#129
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	Also, I want to give KennyC a standing ovation for services rendered earlier in the thread. I'd give karma, but I used up my allowance for today already.

09-26-2011, 11:29 AM	#132
crossi Guru Posts: 997 Karma: 12000001 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Seattle Wahington U.S. Device: kindle	I have nearly $3000 invested in ebooks already. Most of those I had bought previously in paper. I am NOT going to have to buy them again just for an obsolete reader. And just for the record I have no intention or wish to share my books, just to keep them.

09-26-2011, 11:37 AM	#134
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I've spent a heck of a lot more than $3000 on eBooks - probably at least 5x that. But, unlike some, I don't consider it to be an "investment". That, to me, means something that will increase in value, and which I could subsequently sell and make a profit. For me, books are entertainment, and I'm willing to spend money to entertain myself, but I don't kid myself that I'm "investing" that money. I'll never get it back again.

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