why the fuss over epub?

[thebestjeter]

Originally Posted by karunaji

That is one way how to deal with it. But it won't work for some other languages with a lot of inflections for each word.

My mother tongue is Spanish, four times more inflection than English. I have never had any problem looking up any word in my Larrouse. I honestly don't know what are you talking about, since in the only situation when the Mobipocket Dictionaries do not support inflection is when you are typing a word directly in the dictionary, because they suggest different words according to the letter you are typing in, so you have to enter the exact word or select it from the ones are suggested. Otherwise, the Kindle Mobipocket dictionaries always support inflections (exactly the same happens with Mobipocket for PC)

[karunaji]

Originally Posted by thebestjeter

I honestly don't know what are you talking about, since in the only situation when the Mobipocket Dictionaries do not support inflection is when you are typing a word directly in the dictionary, because they suggest different words according to the letter you are typing in, so you have to enter the exact word or select it from the ones are suggested. Otherwise, the Kindle Mobipocket dictionaries always support inflections (exactly the same happens with Mobipocket for PC)

I guess I am talking exactly about this situation. I noticed that different dictionaries have different systems to deal with inflections and in one Spanish dictionary that I have all inflected forms indeed appear in the listing index. So, you might be right that it is possible to achieve the same functionality.

But it is strange that for some dictionaries inflections work in the pup-up texts but not when typing in the dictionary index search. The in-built The New Oxford American Dictionary which instead have added a lot of redirect entries. That probably caused my confused. All these little things seem unimportant until you need them.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by thebestjeter

Someone has told you what makes Mobipocket better than ePub based on personal needs, due to the lack of dictionary standard on ePub format. Of course, you close your eyes, and still saying nobody have said nothing. Mobipocket has dictionaries and ePub doesn't, and that, for non-native English speakers is a BIG deal.

I subscribe to everything she says. Please read and realize that ePub is far from perfect:

I was asking a specific person and never did get an answer. The answer you are quoting is from someone else. I never said ePub was perfect. Please reread my question.

[JSWolf]

After having used an eBook reader for a number of years. I rarely if ever used a dictionary. And most of the words I'd want to look up would not be in the dictionaries. But the fact that I have a dictionary now and rarely use it means that to me, I could do without and still be fine.

So for those who feel they NEED a dictionary, when you read your pBooks, did you sit with multiple dictionaries next to you?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by thebestjeter

That the point. Since a dictionary standard is so easy to make, why ePub doesn't have one? And, I insist, dictionary standard definition is more important than blockquote, embedded font and so on. I daresay, it's essential.

Did you sit reading your pBooks with a stack of dictionaries by your side? If not, why not? You obviously need them since you don't understand the words in the books you read. A dictionary is not essential if you understand the words.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by trekchick

I feel like I'm being nit-picky, but I can't seem to stop myself: There are relatively few ePub dictionaries available for sale, but some are being published. They must be manually searched, almost like a printed dictionary. This is less than ideal since e-book users want their add-on dictionaries to perform like the built-in dictionary. As I've previously stated, this is a benefit that Kindle has over its three closest competitors.

In an attempt to circle back to and expand upon the original point (I might need Tom Tom to help me find it): ePub's lack of specification for dictionary lookup isn't necessarily a barrier to Amazon adopting the format (but not ADEPT - that's just crazy). Using Sony as an example, we see that robust and elegant dictionary lookups are possible. ePub's benefits probably outweigh the difficulty of integrating Kindle dictionaries with ePub. After all, Kindle 3's dictionary supports lookups in PDFs as well as mobi-variants, so part of the work is already done.

There is no reason Amazon could not create an ePub parser that would be able to handle the same dictionaries that AZW handles. That would solve the problem of not having dictionaries available for sale. It just depends if Amazon wants to do it. I do feel that Amazon has to go ePub or eventually, they will lose out.

When you are reading a Kindle book and you know the limitations of Mobipocket and you see them on screen, it can take you out of the story. Poorly formatted eBooks are a sure way to be taken out of the story. And in this case it doesn't have to be poorly formatted, it can be limitations based on the format that just stare you in the face.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

I think the real barrier is not technical but commercial. Which would be the real benefit for Amazon? If there's no benefit (customer welfare is not a reason, we are talking about an enterprise ), I see no reason to change. And, if your device admits books from other bookstores, I think it's not good for you, so...

If Amazon went ePub, I do think they'd use a DRM like AZW and other DRMed ePub would not work. Only DRM-free ePub would work from other shops.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So for those who feel they NEED a dictionary, when you read your pBooks, did you sit with multiple dictionaries next to you?

As I've told you, there's live outsive the English speakers. When I read an English novel, I usually had a dictionary, and I looked for a lot of words, so I was very restricted in my readings. Now, I need it but I use a lot anyway.

A friend of mine wants to improve her English, and a way to do it is reading a novel in an ereader with dictionary, so she can get more vocabulary.

I understand that it isn't a need for you, but there are other needs too

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If Amazon went ePub, I do think they'd use a DRM like AZW and other DRMed ePub would not work. Only DRM-free ePub would work from other shops.

Well, your guess is as good as mine. Time will tell.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

Well, your guess is as good as mine. Time will tell.

We'll know what's what when Amazon bring out the next Kindle.

[trekchick]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

I think the real barrier is not technical but commercial. Which would be the real benefit for Amazon? If there's no benefit (customer welfare is not a reason, we are talking about an enterprise ), I see no reason to change. And, if your device admits books from other bookstores, I think it's not good for you, so...

Sony abandoned LRF and B&N ditched PDB in favor of ePub because it made good business sense. Amazon must be facing similar issues. Whether or not they adopt the same solution remains to be seen.

Rumor has it that Amazon is allowing some publishers to submit ePubs for conversion into Kindle format. This should improve the quality of Kindle books, since due to their consistent structure, valid ePub files convert easily into other formats. Too many Kindle books are released with glitchy formatting errors, caused by converting poorly structured source documents. This results in lost sales when books are returned, and additional customer service load, even when customers keep poorly formatted books. When/if the format problems are corrected, Amazon offers customers the choice to keep the existing version or replace it (which removes all annotations).

Moving to ePub would only open the Kindle device to additional bookstores if Amazon used Apple's Fairplay or Adobe's ADEPT DRM, and there's absolutely no reason for them to do that. If Amazon applies their current DRM to ePubs, Kindle would continue to be incompatible with the DRM from third party bookstores.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by trekchick

Too many Kindle books are released with glitchy formatting errors, caused by converting poorly structured source documents.

Actually, that same issue is a problem with ePub as well. And the conversion from such an ePub would give you the same problem Mobipocket eBook.

In fact, what of the more recent Star Trek ePub had a problem with missing italics and guess what? The Kindle edition had the very same issue. So even if the publishers aren't directly submitting ePub, I do think they are converting the ePub to Mobipocket for the Kindle.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

A dictionary is not essential if you understand the words.

Nonsense. I can tell you based on your comment, that you speak English only.

A dictionary is essential for most non technical books or fiction books. It allows you to expand vocabulary or validate different meanings for the same word.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Did you sit reading your pBooks with a stack of dictionaries by your side? If not, why not? You obviously need them since you don't understand the words in the books you read. A dictionary is not essential if you understand the words.

When I read pbooks, I will often hold a few pages between my fingers to be able to flip back & forth to a couple of important sections (like charts); when I run across a detail that doesn't seem to make sense, I flip back a few pages to confirm what's bothering me. These are very difficult to manage in ebooks.

When I read pbooks, I can highlight or make notes next to important sections. I can't do this with my ebook readers. (I could, with a different reader--but I still wouldn't be able to photocopy that page, with my markups, and show it to someone else.) I can use three different colors of post-it notes as bookmarks, to tag the difference between "quote this section" and "cross-confirm this fact" and "key point related to thesis." EBooks don't let me do that easily; some platforms don't let me do it at all.

The issue isn't, "can ebooks re-create the pbook experience EXACTLY?" It can't, and it shouldn't bother trying. Ebooks do something things better and some things worse. I'm strongly in the "mostly better" camp, but I know we're losing some aspects of what's useful & effective in pbooks.

The issue is, "what can be done simply & effectively digitally, and why aren't some ebook formats/platforms doing it?"

Dictionary lookup should be an *easy* thing to include. So should drop caps. (It is *ridiculous* that MS Word still doesn't offer drop caps.) So should attached-and-exportable annotations, if not on-screen annotations.

The grumbling isn't about comparing ebooks to pbooks; we're all agreed (AFAIK) that ebooks aren't trying to be "pbooks on a screen" any more than email is a letter on a screen. Different media; different possibilities; different standards--it's not a "flaw" of email that you can't dip it in perfume before sending it. The concern is about what ebooks can do compared to each other.

[karunaji]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Did you sit reading your pBooks with a stack of dictionaries by your side? If not, why not? You obviously need them since you don't understand the words in the books you read. A dictionary is not essential if you understand the words.

I use a Kindle dictionary when reading a pbook. But before Kindle or other e-dictionaries I used one of several options available: 1) a walking dictionary – ask another person what the given word or phrase means, 2) check online sources, 3) use a paper dictionary.

I don't really need (almost) a dictionary when reading in my native language too. But currently there are more speakers with English as a second language than there are native English speakers in the world. And even if they rarely use paper dictionaries, they would surely appreciate an e-reader with a dictionary function enabled.