Sharing ebooks???

[skypilotpete]

Originally Posted by Poppaea

Personal abuse?

There is an enormous amount of irony in your post that you obviously can't see. And I think it is funny when someone who wants to do what he was asked not to do by the law and by the vendors business conditions wonders if others will abide when asked to do what he asks of them.

I am well and truly aware of the mindset that your analysis of my motives and actions comes from. The so-called irony you see derives purely from your values and your reading of the situation. I simply reject your fundamental premises. Go ahead and laugh at your own jokes if it makes you happy. And if you feel superior to me, that's fine too.

[Poppaea]

Originally Posted by skypilotpete

I am well and truly aware of the mindset that your analysis of my motives and actions comes from. The so-called irony you see derives purely from your values and your reading of the situation. I simply reject your fundamental premises. Go ahead and laugh at your own jokes if it makes you happy. And if you feel superior to me, that's fine too.

My value and reading of the situation?

The situation is clear. The deDRMing to distribute ebooks is illegal. The standard value is the law. Period.

You want make it better by calling it "sharing" or any other term to cover the facts. It just does not work with me.

Please let me know where I set any values or read something into the situation that was not there in your OP.

[skypilotpete]

My value and reading of the situation?

The situation is clear. The deDRMing to distribute ebooks is illegal. The standard value is the law. Period.

Not all laws are good, and bad laws do not deserve to be followed. The mindless acceptance of legal authority can lead to any number of appalling results. I would have thought that would have been quite obvious to anyone who lists their address as Berlin.

You want make it better by calling it "sharing" or any other term to cover the facts. It just does not work with me.

I know it doesn't work for you, and that's fine. My position is accurately presented by Darcey's post earlier in this discussion:

I personally believe that the sharing of books between close friends and family members is a social convention that dates back far further then copyright and doesn't disappear just because the book is no longer distributed on pulp. For me it's a part of social culture. Trying to control down to this level is far beyond the original intent of copyright and is a huge power grab by the industry. I certainly don't want laws to get down to this level of anal detail.

As far as I am concerned, the behaviour of ebook publishers and sellers in seeking to restrict the rights of purchasers goes way beyond what is reasonable, and is part and parcel of international capitalism run rampant. I feel no moral obligation to kowtow to their money-grabbing behaviour.

Please let me know where I set any values or read something into the situation that was not there in your OP.

In my original post I clearly said that I wanted to "share these converted ebooks with friends - as I would feel entitled to do with any other book that I purchased." I did not say that I would be sharing them indiscriminately or uploading them to torrent sites. But you simply assumed this in your original post and said;

you are wondering if your ""friends" from the torrent site won't do it if ask to... [sic]

You made an unwarrented and groundless assumption that what I really meant was that I wanted find out if it was safe for me to upload to torrent sites - absolutely untrue!

My real concern was accurately represented by intheendofdays when he/she said:

Originally Posted by intheendofdays

The issue is that whilst you might trust the person you cannot be sure where the file will end up, especially after a few years. For example: you pass it onto your mother-in-law who in turn passes it a friend, who shares it with someone at work ad nauseum and it eventually ends up on a file sharing site. File sharing sites are quite difficult to get files taken off of, mainly because they say that they are just connecting people and do not hold the files on their servers, so the copyright holder would likely come after you as your name is on the copyright page.

Enough said for today...

[HansTWN]

Not sure international capitalism has anything to do with it -- just the opposite actually. Publishers have formed a cartel to prevent discounting.

As for the comment from "intheendofdays" --- when you hand your files to anyone you should be absolutely responsible of where it winds up. If your mother-in-law tends to pass it on to her friends in turn then you shouldn't give it to her. Not free sharing to anyone you know and to anyone your friends know should be the goal but only direct sharing between family members and very close, trusted friends. Sort of like giving someone a loaded gun.

[Poppaea]

Come on. You were asking if it is possible to track it down to you. So you are aware of it being illegal. You were afraid it will end up on a torrent site. So you are aware you can trust no one as you yourself are proof of as you do not want to play by the rules.

It is not the question if a law is good or bad as long as it is there you either follow it or your don't. And when you buy an ebook you know you can't lend it out the same way as you can with pbooks.

There are ways to lend it out within the law and these were pointed out to you by some people in this thread. But this was not your question, was it? You weren't asking for legal ways to share your books. You were asking if you could get caught when you do what you perfectly know is illegal. This does say something about you. So please at least have the courtesy not to be annoyed with me who sees you in the light you shed upon yourself all alone.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Poppaea

Come on. You were asking if it is possible to track it down to you. So you are aware of it being illegal. You were afraid it will end up on a torrent site. So you are aware you can trust no one as you yourself are proof of as you do not want to play by the rules.

It is not the question if a law is good or bad as long as it is there you either follow it or your don't. And when you buy an ebook you know you can't lend it out the same way as you can with pbooks.

There are ways to lend it out within the law and these were pointed out to you by some people in this thread. But this was not your question, was it? You weren't asking for legal ways to share your books. You were asking if you could get caught when you do what you perfectly know is illegal. This does say something about you. So please at least have the courtesy not to be annoyed with me who sees you in the light you shed upon yourself all alone.

My guess your comment refers to skypepilotpete's entry, not to mine? Mine is right above yours, but you didn't quote skypilotpete.

[Tome Keeper]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Not sure international capitalism has anything to do with it -- just the opposite actually. Publishers have formed a cartel to prevent discounting.

As for the comment from "intheendofdays" --- when you hand your files to anyone you should be absolutely responsible of where it winds up. If your mother-in-law tends to pass it on to her friends in turn then you shouldn't give it to her. Not free sharing to anyone you know and to anyone your friends know should be the goal but only direct sharing between family members and very close, trusted friends. Sort of like giving someone a loaded gun.

That was a hypothetical scenario to illustrate my point. My point was you have no control but all the responsibility once you share that book.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by intheendofdays

That was a hypothetical scenario to illustrate my point. My point was you have no control but all the responsibility once you share that book.

Of course, which means you will be very, very careful. And that is the whole point.

Besides, just as with my gun example, they can then track the file back to you. Just because the file originated with you doesn't automatically make you guilty if it winds up on file sharing site, but they can continue to follow the trail of borrowers down to the real culprit. Exactly the way it should be.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Poppaea

Is this so? My reason to put someone on my ignore list is that their view of things is annoying me and I know there will never be consent. Or because someone will say the same thing over and over again, regardless of the topic. Instead of being annoyed or bickering with them I choose to ignore them. Where does that value someone? I

And even if it is, why should that be a problem? The ignore function is given here and I am allowed to use it and to have my own opinions. So are you.

I have people on my ignore list and I know I am myself on other persons lists, too. Does not make me feel bad at all.

No problem at all. It is telling everybody else that you put somebody on the ignore list that is a personal attack.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Do you have a problem understanding English?

No, not understanding. Your statement was ambigious. So maybe you have a problem expressing yourself in English. But we know you have a problem with English since you use the wrong words very often.

[Poppaea]

Originally Posted by tompe

No problem at all. It is telling everybody else that you put somebody on the ignore list that is a personal attack.

Different code of ethics, then. Not telling is my prerogative as is telling. The way you put it not telling sounds rather sneaky in my book.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by skypilotpete

Not all laws are good, and bad laws do not deserve to be followed. The mindless acceptance of legal authority can lead to any number of appalling results. I..

Umm.... It doesn't matter what YOU think. If a law is in force and you choose to break it you are a criminal.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Umm.... It doesn't matter what YOU think. If a law is in force and you choose to break it you are a criminal.

Except for speeding, parking, and taxes -- breaking those laws will make you a folk hero

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Barcey

It doesn't have to be illegal to remove anything from the file. If the ebook has been customized with your name (public information, not personal) you can remove it but you don't know if it's embedded somewhere else that isn't obvious. The idea is to make it a deterrent, not control.

Someone would strip it apart, find out where the personal details are kept, then create a tool that will remove them for everyone (or display them for people with an interest in such things, especially if they contain credit card details). Anything like that would be useless without a corresponding law to stop people from removing it.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Poppaea

My value and reading of the situation?

The situation is clear. The deDRMing to distribute ebooks is illegal. The standard value is the law. Period.

Removing DRM is what is illegal, what you do with them after that isn't really relevant. Any distribution would be subject to other laws and would be additional to the charges of removing the DRM. The only exception would be if the publisher disabled the read aloud feature of some ebook readers.