Why are DRM ebooks evil and why should I avoid them like the plague?

[TheSFReader]

Originally Posted by kennyc

but they just moved to adobe ADE DRM.

Hi Kenny, as a Nook owner, I'm quite interested in that last assertion. Do you have links ?

[DiapDealer]

B&N has been using a different flavor of Adobe's Adept DRM for a long time. They just use your Name & CC# as the key to that DRM--instead of using your Adobe ID (or ADE install) to generate the encryption. Different algorithms, but both licensed by Adobe, AFAIK.

Is that changing Kenny?

[TheSFReader]

My understanding is that B&N used a DRM system (with the "social key") that was not compatible with the Adobe one, but that Adobe recently added it to their "Content Server" suite, which allows them to "embrace" the B&N DRM and render "updated" ereaders to read B&N drm-ed books. Nowhere do I see that B&N changed the DRM they use on the ebooks they sell. Has that situation changed in the last months ?

[DiapDealer]

Nowhere do I see that B&N changed the DRM they use on the ebooks they sell. Has that situation changed in the last months ?

Not that I'm aware of. I bought a B&N book yesterday, and I "liberated" it the same way as the ones I've bought for the past year, or so.

[queentess]

Originally Posted by stonetools

You are asking authors and publishers to take a leap of faith based on NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE. If you are asking authors and publishers to take such a leap, you don't need a pretty theory-you need CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE .

They're rather making the leap now, assuming DRM works... all evidence to the contrary that it prevents any sort of piracy.

I suggest that, as a scientific test, in order to see if DRM-free publishers can survive, that we have several small publishers remove DRM and see what happens. That will provide CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE! Oh, what's that you say? It's already being done?

But, but, but... no, you can't draw a conclusion from a handful of small publishers! There's no CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE that it will work for everyone! LEAP OF FAITH! LEAP OF FAITH! Wharbable wharblablable!


Moving The Goalposts (Raising The Bar, Argument By Demanding Impossible Perfection):

if your opponent successfully addresses some point, then say he must also address some further point.

[bhartman36]

I'm not a big fan of linking DRM to credit cards. Eventually, credit cards expire, or you might decide to switch cards. There's no guarantee you'll have the same credit card number the next time you want to access your book.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

I'm not a big fan of linking DRM to credit cards. Eventually, credit cards expire, or you might decide to switch cards. There's no guarantee you'll have the same credit card number the next time you want to access your book.

Or the bank decides to go with Mastercard instead of Visa - which I've had done twice over the past few years.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Or the bank decides to go with Mastercard instead of Visa - which I've had done twice over the past few years.

It was the problem of long-term storage of the DRM keys (name and number for eReader) that originally turned me off DRM completely.

The idea that I'd eventually end up with multiple different name/number combinations, that had to be matched to the individual DRMed ebooks, every time I wanted to read them on a new device... ughhh.

[DiapDealer]

I'm not a big fan of linking DRM to credit cards. Eventually, credit cards expire, or you might decide to switch cards. There's no guarantee you'll have the same credit card number the next time you want to access your book.

Doesn't matter. A new credit card would only affect new purchases (and re-downloads would be encrypted with the new card number). The only people a credit card change might affect (tangentially only) are those who remove DRM--but even then, only those who don't remove DRM right away might have trouble. I actually prefer this form of social DRM (if DRM must be used at all).

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Doesn't matter. A new credit card would only affect new purchases (and re-downloads would be encrypted with the new card number). The only people a credit card change might affect (tangentially only) are those who remove DRM--but even then, only those who don't remove DRM right away might have trouble. I actually prefer this form of social DRM (if DRM must be used at all).

It matters because if the credit card is old, you've presumably cut it up and thrown it out (along with the number on it). Sure, you're able to access all your new stuff with your new card, but the old stuff is gone if you don't know the old number, because you've basically just chopped the combination to the safe up and thrown it away.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

It matters because if the credit card is old, you've presumably cut it up and thrown it out (along with the number on it). Sure, you're able to access all your new stuff with your new card, but the old stuff is gone if you don't know the old number, because you've basically just chopped the combination to the safe up and thrown it away.

You're most likely to be able to find the number inside all the bank papesr. The main trick is : when did I bought the book, and what card fits with it.

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I suspect you're referring to me in your last bit. I have said that if it's a choice between having no DRM on the books I buy, or having ebooks in libraries, I'd rather have no ebooks in libraries. But I don't actually think it will come down to such a stark choice.

Interesting. I feel strongly about the opposite point of view. If DRM is necessary in order to retain the ability of libraries to loan out e-books, then I say retain DRM. Not that I am ready to agree that DRM is needed for this.

Originally Posted by bhartman36

I'm not a big fan of linking DRM to credit cards. Eventually, credit cards expire, or you might decide to switch cards. There's no guarantee you'll have the same credit card number the next time you want to access your book.

The only DRM I have ever had to deal with is the standard Adobe Adept DRM. Since I always remove that impediment straight away I've never had an issue with it. So this DRM that is linked to say a credit card number? Does that require punching in that number each time the book is accessed? I would not like that at all.


Stonetools and all those responding to him really should be getting credit for all this to be applied to a degree or certification in debating.

[DiapDealer]

It matters because if the credit card is old, you've presumably cut it up and thrown it out (along with the number on it). Sure, you're able to access all your new stuff with your new card, but the old stuff is gone if you don't know the old number, because you've basically just chopped the combination to the safe up and thrown it away.

I don't disagree, but again, "Normal readers" will never have to remember the old credit card number in order to simply read their old book. Only DRM removers who didn't take care of business immediately.

I think all DRM sucks, I just hate B&N's less than the one's that are based on machine specific criteria.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

Interesting. I feel strongly about the opposite point of view. If DRM is necessary in order to retain the ability of libraries to loan out e-books, then I say retain DRM. Not that I am ready to agree that DRM is needed for this.

So people who buy books should be penalised to allow people who don't buy books to continue to get books for free?

[elcreative]

Free is a slight exaggeration, unless your income is so low that you receive Council Tax Benefit, because your Council Tax pays for the library books...

Originally Posted by pdurrant

So people who buy books should be penalised to allow people who don't buy books to continue to get books for free?