Astak Mentor eBook readers with WiFi and Touchscreen (read-only)

[ccccclark]

nm nm nm

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ccccclark

And then what happens when I have a Mobipocket library built up and I need a new reader?

You could buy a CyBook. The best MobiPocket support in the industry, and no prospect of it "going away". Bookeen have been in the eBook reader business longer than pretty much anyone else.

[HarryT]

Robert,

A question for you: given that the CyBook which, as you know, uses MobiPocket, can seemingly be perfectly legitimately sold in the US, why can't the EZ Reader? It would appear to be an exactly equivalent situation.

[slayda]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Robert,

A question for you: given that the CyBook which, as you know, uses MobiPocket, can seemingly be perfectly legitimately sold in the US, why can't the EZ Reader? It would appear to be an exactly equivalent situation.

But Harry, if the EZ Reader's Mobipocket becomes unavailable in the USA because of Amazon pressure, how long will it be before Bookeen feels the same pressure and can no longer sell Cybooks (with Mobipocket) in the USA?

I agree with wallcraft about getting a copy of the Hanlin firmware if you have or think you might purchase one of the Hanlin V3 variants. If you have many DRMed Mobipocket, it looks like it's either that, buy a Kindle, or deDRM all your Mobipocket ebooks. And when the giant Amazon does restrict Bookeen as it is now doing with Hanlin, how long before they start "witch hunting" people who do deDRM their Mobipocket ebooks?

[HarryT]

I don't know, Slayda - that's what I'm asking! Are Bookeen being pressured not to sell to US distributers? If they are, this is the first I've heard of it. In the mean time, US distributers like BooksOnBoard are seemingly selling the Gen3 with impunity.

[slayda]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I don't know, Slayda - that's what I'm asking! Are Bookeen being pressured not to sell to US distributers? If they are, this is the first I've heard of it. In the mean time, US distributers like BooksOnBoard are seemingly selling the Gen3 with impunity.

I don't know. Just asking "What ifs?" & speculating.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by ccccclark

And then what happens when I have a Mobipocket library built up and I need a new reader? One post on another board suggested downloading the Hanlin firmware with the Mobipocket "just in case".

I would much rather say to hell with it and take the loss at this point before I get hundreds or thousands of dollars invested in a library. At least Sony will probably be around 10 years from now and they have a better selection of books.

I have had the reader for 4 weeks and already my books are obsolete. Well not really, except that the original hardware vendor (Astak) will no longer provide support for that format. I have a bad feeling about this whole deal.

You can always buy a new reader and add the pid to your list of available readers. Then you redownload your eBooks with the new PID. Most dealers give you 4 but if not you can cancel the old one and transfer to the new one. this is not a manufactures issue but a dealer one. the ebook dealer you buy your ebooks from controls the licensing of the ebook. For Sony this is only Sony but for Mobipocket there are many dealers. There is no reason to worry about your next unit yet.

Dale

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by ccccclark

But it is not only a question about my current EZ Reader. This will probably not be the only reader I will ever own. If my library will not work on a future reader, it is no good to me. I had no idea the Mobipocket was under restriction. I thought it was open.

The MOBI format is on lots of general purpose devices (PCs, PDAs, cell phones), but on dedicated ebook reading devices MobiPocket (Amazon) requires DRM exclusivity. So if a dedicated reading device supports MOBI DRM then it won't support any other kind of ebook DRM. The exclusivity requirement was moot for a while because there were no alternatives, but now there is Adobe Digital Editions (currently on Sony Readers only) and eReader (soon on EZ Reader and Foxit eSlick).

We now find there is another requirement for MOBI on these devices - limits on US sales. This isn't entirely clear, because no vendor talks about their agreement with MobiPocket, but we know that the only company (Astak) that tried to sell a MOBI DRMed EInk reader in the US via retail channels was stopped by Amazon from doing so. On the other hand the Ectaco Jetbook (not EInk, but a dedicated reading device) is also available though retail channels in the US, and it will reportedly support (DRM-ed?) MOBI at some point, see ECTACO jetBook Now Includes Fodor's Travel Guide.

DRM is intrinsically anti-longevity. MobiPocket could shut down tomorrow (Amazon isn't trumpeting MOBI sales after all, but rather Kindle sales), as could eReader, and Adobe's DRM scheme is so draconian that in the past it routinely rendered old ebook collections unreadable on new devices (it may be less prone to that today, but what about tomorrow). If a DRM provider shuts down, the ebooks on existing devices will typically still work but they won't be transferable to new devices. So the only recipe for ebook longevity is a DRM-free collection, because format shifting does work (more or less) and this insulates you from reliance on particular reader software. In today's environment that means either only buying DRM-free titles or stripping the DRM (which may not be legal). If you have a Windows PC, then I recommend the MS Reader (LIT) format for those who want to strip DRM and archive for the long term. This is the richest of the major unsecure DRM formats, and so will be easiest to convert to other formats later. The other two possibilities are MOBI and eReader, and they are also ok - particularly if today you are happy with either the MobiPocket or eReader reading software. The downside of LIT is that you pretty much have to format shift it immediately to use it on most devices.

[phenomshel]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

The MOBI format is on lots of general purpose devices (PCs, PDAs, cell phones), but on dedicated ebook reading devices MobiPocket (Amazon) requires DRM exclusivity. So if a dedicated reading device supports MOBI DRM then it won't support any other kind of ebook DRM. The exclusivity requirement was moot for a while because there were no alternatives, but now there is Adobe Digital Editions (currently on Sony Readers only) and eReader (soon on EZ Reader and Foxit eSlick).

We now find there is another requirement for MOBI on these devices - limits on US sales. This isn't entirely clear, because no vendor talks about their agreement with MobiPocket, but we know that the only company (Astak) that tried to sell a MOBI DRMed EInk reader in the US via retail channels was stopped by Amazon from doing so. On the other hand the Ectaco Jetbook (not EInk, but a dedicated reading device) is also available though retail channels in the US, and it will reportedly support (DRM-ed?) MOBI at some point, see ECTACO jetBook Now Includes Fodor's Travel Guide.

DRM is intrinsically anti-longevity. MobiPocket could shut down tomorrow (Amazon isn't trumpeting MOBI sales after all, but rather Kindle sales), as could eReader, and Adobe's DRM scheme is so draconian that in the past it routinely rendered old ebook collections unreadable on new devices (it may be less prone to that today, but what about tomorrow). If a DRM provider shuts down, the ebooks on existing devices will typically still work but they won't be transferable to new devices. So the only recipe for ebook longevity is a DRM-free collection, because format shifting does work (more or less) and this insulates you from reliance on particular reader software. In today's environment that means either only buying DRM-free titles or stripping the DRM (which may not be legal). If you have a Windows PC, then I recommend the MS Reader (LIT) format for those who want to strip DRM and archive for the long term. This is the richest of the major unsecure DRM formats, and so will be easiest to convert to other formats later. The other two possibilities are MOBI and eReader, and they are also ok - particularly if today you are happy with either the MobiPocket or eReader reading software. The downside of LIT is that you pretty much have to format shift it immediately to use it on most devices.

Thank you Wallcraft! This is exactly the answer I've been looking for, I just wasn't smart enough to phrase the question correctly!

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Robert,

A question for you: given that the CyBook which, as you know, uses MobiPocket, can seemingly be perfectly legitimately sold in the US, why can't the EZ Reader? It would appear to be an exactly equivalent situation.

Dear Harry:

I wish I knew. NOTHING in the contract says that the Hanlin V3 cannot be sold in the USA. All I know is we are forbidden so far.

Please realize that we do NOt want any trouble for Jinke (manufacturer of the Hanlin) with Mobi/Amazon. IF I state that I also cannot make one iota of sense of this ban to us... please realize you are asking me to make some sense of what makes NO sense.

Today we heard that MAYBE, just maybe, if we co-brand the EZ Reader with Hanlin V3, we may be alright proceeding with Mobi on the EZ Reader.

One definite statement here: we are NOT stopping support to those who own Mobi EZ Readers. We are trying every way we know how to get this worked out OR get you firmware that will give you eReader and Adobe Digital Editions on it. I am stating a problem that was in no way caused by us and a reason that is without any sense.

Robert B

[HarryT]

I very much hope you are able to resolve the situation, Robert. I think personally that you'll sell more devices with Mobi support than with eReader. I wish you every success.

[pkovak]

This is why I don't buy DRMed books. They cost practicaly the same as paper books, their use is much more restricted, they are less user friendly and they can stop working any time. Paper books don't stop working when you change their cover or some (I can't use the words I have on my mind) decide that I lost my right to read them. And please, don't even start that I don't buy a book but a licence to read it - that's not an answer why I should not be able to use it, it's just another way how to squeeze more money from law abiding people - the rest will get it without DRM and for free on some P2P network. And I really can't hold it against them.

This mobi support looks to me like if you traveled by plane, it's captain decide to kick you out in the middle of the flight. And if you won't cause any trouble, maybe we will give you a parachute.

I understand that in our time, eReaders without DRM have severe handicap, at least for people who really buy books online, but I hope that DRM will be a thing of the past very, very soon.

[Lemurion]

I don't like what happened - but I'm glad to see eReader support coming to E-ink. The one thing eReader has going for it over Mobi right now is iPhone support, adding an E-ink device can only help matters.

One reason is that I really don't like Mobi's DRM because of the way it's tied to the device. Other DRM formats allow you to use your existing files on a new device but Mobi doesn't. Adobe and MS require you to authorize the new device for existing files, which is slightly better, but only eReader lets you transfer your existing files to a new device without outside intervention.

I think it's a better system and I'm glad to see that Astak is going to be supporting it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

I don't like what happened - but I'm glad to see eReader support coming to E-ink. The one thing eReader has going for it over Mobi right now is iPhone support, adding an E-ink device can only help matters.

eReader is "technically" the weakest eBook format out there, in terms of the range of formatting one can have in the book. It's definitely a "retrograde step" in that sense to go from Mobi to eReader.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

eReader is "technically" the weakest eBook format out there, in terms of the range of formatting one can have in the book. It's definitely a "retrograde step" in that sense to go from Mobi to eReader.

While it is not the most feature rich it is not the weakest either. It has enough features to make it a very workable fiction book reader. It does everything that really needs to be done. Mobi isn't the best either but most people say it is ok.

TXT is the weakest, PalmDOC is probably next and there are several offshoots of PalmDOC that are similar. Most eBbook implementations of HTML are weaker that eReader in spite of the fact that HTML is more feature rich. I won't provide the entire list but they are all listed in the wiki and you can check them yourself.

Dale