Man Booker Prize shortlist announced

[Ea]

Originally Posted by beppe

I go back to my point: let's forget about gender. And to Elfwreck's point that I read as: instead of closing let's all work toward opening.

Good of you to emphasise this, beppe. I agree.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

What *possible* logic could explain a publisher refusing books from all non-White authors? Does the public lack access to White voices? Are they being marginalized and ignored? How could a policy of "Whites only" be anything other than racist?

What *possible* logic could explain a publisher refusing books from all non-female authors? Does the public lack access to female voices? Are they being marginalized and ignored? How could a policy of "Females only" be anything other than sexist?

In view of the apparent lack of stats and facts - answers are likely to depend on personal experience. In the UK, I think the justification for either postion would be hard to argue. But stats and facts may yet prove me wrong.

[TGS]

An interesting article by Lionel Shriver about her experience of dallying with mainstream publishing can be found here

[Sparrow]

Came across an article indicating female authors get short shrift among reviewers.
http://www.complete-review.com/quart...ue4/sexist.htm

[charleski]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Came across an article indicating female authors get short shrift among reviewers.
http://www.complete-review.com/quart...ue4/sexist.htm

It's interesting to note that they found that when it comes to fiction bestsellers women are equal to or outperforming men.

Originally Posted by TGS

An interesting article by Lionel Shriver about her experience of dallying with mainstream publishing can be found here

I think the real problem that Shriver is having is that her publishers are unable to think past the genre gravy-train. Game Control obviously sold fairly well if it's being repackaged and reissued 3 years after publication, and a publisher who can't think of a way of selling it without a misleading attempt to label it as chick-lit needs to hire some new staff.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Came across an article indicating female authors get short shrift among reviewers.
http://www.complete-review.com/quart...ue4/sexist.htm

Very honest of them to hold their hands up

[Ea]

Originally Posted by TGS

An interesting article by Lionel Shriver about her experience of dallying with mainstream publishing can be found here

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Came across an article indicating female authors get short shrift among reviewers.
http://www.complete-review.com/quart...ue4/sexist.htm

Interesting articles, both. Thank you.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

What *possible* logic could explain a publisher refusing books from all non-female authors? Does the public lack access to female voices? Are they being marginalized and ignored? How could a policy of "Females only" be anything other than sexist?

In a word: Yes.

I quoted several articles showing that women in academia are published less than men, even after adjusting for the fact that less women are in academia; there are hard numbers for that.

"James Chartrand" mentions her hassles as a freelance writer:

"I was treated like crap, too. Bossed around, degraded, condescended to, with jibes made about my having to work from home. I quickly learned not to mention I had kids. I quickly learned not to mention I worked from my kitchen table." Out of desperation, she started submitting work under a male pseudonym, just to see if it made a difference. And boy, did it ever.

"Instantly, jobs became easier to get.

"There was no haggling. There were compliments, there was respect. Clients hired me quickly, and when they received their work, they liked it just as quickly. There were fewer requests for revisions -- often none at all.

"Customer satisfaction shot through the roof. So did my pay rate."

Women almost have parity in the mystery genre (although men get more of the hardcover releases), but books by men--or rather, books with male names on the cover--get reviewed more, and get more awards.

TV & Movies: Writer's Guild of America (West) claims that only 27 percent of film writers and 19 percent of television writers it represents are female.

So, yes--women have a harder time getting published, and get less attention when they do. Attempting to balance this is not sexism.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

In a word: Yes.

I quoted several articles showing that women in academia are published less than men, even after adjusting for the fact that less women are in academia; there are hard numbers for that.

I accept that women are published less frequently in acedemia.
But is there evidence that the same is true for fiction?

Apparently only 20% of fiction readers are male - why is the publishing industry not catering better to the male readership?
Maybe we should have more awards for male oriented fiction.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I accept that women are published less frequently in acedemia.
But is there evidence that the same is true for fiction?

Apparently only 20% of fiction readers are male - why is the publishing industry not catering better to the male readership?
Maybe we should have more awards for male oriented fiction.

Female readers read male authors. Male readers primarily read male authors. So it is easy to see who is going to sell more...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

Female readers read male authors. Male readers primarily read male authors. So it is easy to see who is going to sell more...

The single biggest selling fiction genre is romance, which is overwhelmingly written by women authors.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

They aren't equivalent situations.

One is working against discrimination & oppression by giving attention to a marginalized group. The other is supporting a habit of exclusion whose roots are firmly in the notion that some groups of people are inherently better and more worthy than others.

Ah, freedom fighters rather than terrorists.
The difference being that we agree with them.

Why would a publisher declare itself White-only?

There are publishers that only publish books by women, or books by people of color, or books by queer authors, or books by Muslims. They do so because these voices have traditionally been excluded from publication, and while some progress has been made, we've not reached anything resembling equal representation.

What *possible* logic could explain a publisher refusing books from all non-White authors? Does the public lack access to White voices? Are they being marginalized and ignored? How could a policy of "Whites only" be anything other than racist?

How about a publisher in somewhere like Zimbabwe, where whites are a minority, and actively discriminated against, marginalised and ignored. Would it be ok to have a white-only publisher there? Isn't it the same situation as a black-only publisher in a majority white country?

Attempting to compensate for the disadvantages inflicted on some groups is not the same as discrimination against the privileged group.

Well logically it is.
Where there are limited resources, discriminating in favour of A is the same as discriminating against not-A.
We might decide it is the right thing to do, but that doesn't change what it is.
In the UK, political parties are discussing having women-only shortlists to select candidates for elections. That does mean that they are discriminating against men.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The single biggest selling fiction genre is romance, which is overwhelmingly written by women authors.

And? Of course we can have special genres that have there own traditions and rules. And when you subscribe on books I really do not think you make a choice for each book.

[SensualPoet]

And, speaking of the Man Booker 2010 authors and shortlist ...

I came across a terrific blog which discusses titles, long and short lists, reviews the books, and throws in other awards -- like the Giller Prize to boot.

http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com...er-jury-plans/

It also reminds us the finalist will be announced Oct 12 ... leaving us time still to read some of the titles in the shortlist.

The entry point to "KevinFromCanada" (or KfC as he short-forms it) is: http://kevinfromcanada.wordpress.com/
A reminder that these include:

Parrot and Olivier in America, by Peter Carey
Room, by Emma Donoghue
In A Strange Room, by Damon Galgut
The Finkler Question, by Howard Jacobson
The Long Song, by Andrea Levy
C, by Tom McCarthy

And most are available in UK, US and Canada as e-books (see much earlier in the thread where I captured sources).

[SensualPoet]

And the winner is Howard Jacobson for The Finkler Question.

The Globe and Mail has a report here: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/books...rticle1754042/

The Guardian has a report here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010...uestion-booker

The title is $8.99 as a DRM ePub at kobobooks and you can use the code $1can (til midnight Oct 12 so hurry!) and reduce that to $7.99. It is also available at Amazon US/Canada for $9.99 in DRM Kindle format.