iPad vs Sony Reader

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Latinandgreek

This might be a stupid question, but here goes: Do embedded fonts work on text-based PDFs on the iPad? I am considering the iPad as it looks like it might be a good choice of device for marking up PDFs, but I have to say that embedded fonts would be a deal breaker for me, as I am happy reading novels on my Sony 505 and would be purchasing the iPad to primarily to read scanned PDFs and journal articles / textbooks, and texts that I am translating, and most of these PDFs would use "foreign" characters.

From the couple PDFs I used looked at, formula's etc. displayed fine.

But these were scholarly journal pdfs that just the image type of files. Text based PDFs with reflowable text etc., I'm not sure how those would display.

For me it's pretty moot pretty much all the journals I read just have the files in the PDF image format (scanned pages, printed as PDF etc.).

[frabjous]

Originally Posted by scottjl

As I pointed out, it certainly reads many epub files well. If it doesn't read your files well, maybe you should take it up with Apple's tech support. They are certainly in a better position to help you than anyone on this forum.

The question is, does it support the ePub spec; since the ePub spec mandates support for the @font-face declaration, it only partly supports ePub. The fact that a lot of ePubs out there don't use that aspect of the spec only means that a lot of people will get lucky.

Calling tech support isn't going to do any good, at least not until they update the software on it.

And I have pointed out several times that iBooks does seem to read many ePub files just fine, after they download iBooks that is.

I've never disputed that.

I'm sorry, I didn't read anywhere that Apple promised to read 100% of everyone's epub files and have them display 100% correctly/

It promises to support ePubs. To support ePubs is to support the ePub technical specifications. If I bought a DVD player, took it home, and found out that only half of my DVDs played on it e.g., those that didn't have subtitles or something, with no forewarning,, I'd have every right to complain.

Again, you might want to contact Apple's tech support and not this forum. AFAIK MobileRead has no affiliation with Apple.

We're comparing Sony Reader to Apple. It's a discussion. It's perfectly relevant in the context of that discussion to point out features that the Sony Reader has that the iPad doesn't, like fuller support for the Epub technical specifications. Sony isn't perfect either, e.g., such as not supporting full justification. But that flaw doesn't completely prevent you from reading certain books.

You might want to point Granny at the Apple Developer Program. She can join for $99/yr, develop any application she wants, and even sell it on the App Store! Anyone else can join as well. I think most intelligent people can pick up programming skills.

They shouldn't have to pay to program on their own computers. $99 may not seem like a lot, but these things add up, especially if I have to pay this money for every device that any one of my students might be using.

Then you might want to look for a device that is marketed at this time in another language, or one that is marketed as supporting mathematical formulas. The iPad isn't marketed as either, but please, provide links if I'm wrong.

The iPad claims that it supports ePub books. The ePub technical specification mandates support for the @font-face declaration. Notice the boldface in "must be supported".

Apple can't take something away if they never gave it to you to begin with. The device is a week and a half old. Maybe instead of complaining on this forum you could take your complaints to Apple and help them improve their device. Or get granny to write a better ePub reader application.

Again, this is a discussion of relative merits of one device vs. another. What could be more appropriate in such a discussion than to point out one area in which one is superior to the other? There are other ways in which iPads do better.

I think people do have grounds for complaining here, don't get me wrong. But the purpose of this discussion is comparison, not complaining.

Well, I seem to be reading on my iPad just fine, and I think some other people around here are as well.

No one has questioned that.

You had better make sure that all your students have readers capable of support embedded fonts, because Apple isn't the only one who doesn't.

This is true, but it is useful to know which devices support and which do not, and hence, which to recommend and which not to.

1. Make a request to Apple to support this feature in a future release of iBooks.
2. Make this request to developers of other reader applications such as Kindle, GoodReader, Kobo, etc. that they support ePub files and support embedded fonts within ePub files.
3. Do not buy an iPad for reading these files, but a different device which supports these files at this time.
4. Enjoy reading on your other devices.
5. Complain elsewhere, we've heard it already.

1. It just points to something really deeply wrong with Apple that you need their permission and enabling to do something as simple as installing a new font; the iPad costs as much as a cheap full-featured laptop or desktop; you should have some amount of control over your own machine, 2. I have, 3. I wouldn't consider doing anything else, 4. will do, and 5. my purpose on this forum is to make sure the information is out there.

What exactly do you think this forum is for? Discussion, of course. Complaining is not really my primarily purpose in here, just comparison. But I do think that even as someone who doesn't own one of these, I do have grounds for complaint.

The likely abundance of these devices makes demands on me as someone who provides information to hundreds of people. Even if I don't have this device, people I communicate will. And now I'm forced, or at least pressured, to provide information in a different way than the most convenient. When a popular device does things likes this, it makes my life a little worse, and I think that's grounds for complaint. But my purpose in this thread is not to complain, but to compare.

Originally Posted by Amalthia

Does anyone know if the Ipad reads html files? I mean I figured it would have to since it has a built in browser? I'm not sure if epub or other file formats are needed if you have the html document.

An ePub is basically just a zipped up (X)HTML file. I don't know whether or not iTunes will allow you transfer HTML files as is, but there will definitely be one way or another of reading HTML files on it. (Though it'll have the same limitations: no embedded fonts, for example.)

Originally Posted by Latinandgreek

This might be a stupid question, but here goes: Do embedded fonts work on text-based PDFs on the iPad? I am considering the iPad as it looks like it might be a good choice of device for marking up PDFs, but I have to say that embedded fonts would be a deal breaker for me, as I am happy reading novels on my Sony 505 and would be purchasing the iPad to primarily to read scanned PDFs and journal articles / textbooks, and texts that I am translating, and most of these PDFs would use "foreign" characters.

I tried this out when I was experimenting, and yes, the PDF reader seems to support embedded fonts and foreign language characters/mathematical characters in text-based PDFs just fine. (Believe me, you'd really have complaints if that weren't true!)

So there's one good thing about the iPad. I'm sure there are many others.

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

From the couple PDFs I used looked at, formula's etc. displayed fine.

But these were scholarly journal pdfs that just the image type of files. Text based PDFs with reflowable text etc., I'm not sure how those would display.

For me it's pretty moot pretty much all the journals I read just have the files in the PDF image format (scanned pages, printed as PDF etc.).

Thanks for your reply. I make a lot of my own PDFs, of Greek texts created from word files, and I'd like to be able to annotate those files. The iPad looks like it would be handy for that sort of work; I'd like to see one in action before I decide on purchasing it, but unfortunately it doesn't look like that's going to happen anytime soon. I'd still keep my Sony 505, however, I think the size is perfect for reading novels, and I do read some PDFs on it (journal articles, even some textbooks, etc.). I would have liked an e-ink reader for annotating PDF files and for reading large PDF files, but none seemed to fit my needs, with the (possible) exception of the DR1000, but it was out of my price range. I'd like to check out the Que as well, and compare it to the iPad.

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by frabjous

We're comparing Sony Reader to Apple. It's a discussion. It's perfectly relevant in the context of that discussion to point out features that the Sony Reader has that the iPad doesn't, like fuller support for the Epub technical specifications. Sony isn't perfect either, e.g., such as not supporting full justification. But that flaw doesn't completely prevent you from reading certain books.

Actually, I believe that the newest Sony model (PRS-900) supports full justification of Epubs. Don't quote me on that, though! If I were a first time e-book reader buyer, the Sony-900 would be at the top of my list of possible units to buy.

Also, thanks for replying to my question.

[frabjous]

Originally Posted by Latinandgreek

Actually, I believe that the newest Sony model (PRS-900) supports full justification of Epubs. Don't quote me on that, though! If I were a first time e-book reader buyer, the Sony-900 would be at the top of my list of possible units to buy.

Oh yes, I think you're right. In fact, I think even the 600 does, but don't quote me on that either. It's just us 505 users who get a raw deal here.

[SCION]

The 600 doesn't support full justification. It was one of the reasons I returned it.

[JSWolf]

I am finding a number of commercial ePub eBooks do have embedded fonts. Since iBooks doesn't support embedded fonts, I will lose the look that the publisher has gone for.

[wintertrader]

I am newly registered but reading the threads for some time now.

I felt bad seeing all the dispute going on in this thread when I was actually looking for some info on the iPad reader capabilities, since I know sony's (the touch) .

I have found today 2 very informative links about that.

I have to admit that I am quite impressed with what I've seen.

Maby the Sony will just go back to the store and I'll buy the I pad because for what I need, it could be more convenient.

Every one should choose whatever they think fits their reading habits.

Peace to everyone

[wintertrader]

http://kindleworld.blogspot.com/2010...-sunlight.html

http://blogs.zdnet.com/mobile-gadget...g=wrapper;col1

[93terp]

Originally Posted by Tamara

Some people just want everything for nothing .

Kinda like people who keep screaming for more & more tax cuts, but don't want to give anything up as a result of said tax cuts!

[len.jacobs]

The Sony 900 does support full justification but it would be great if you could turn that feature on or off. The word spacing when justification is on is terrible. When these devices will support justification and automatic hyphenation -- that is when typography will begin to be an issue along with readability.

The Sony 600 does not support justification, but do you all think it is easier to read justified text -- or is it more about simulating a print book?

Back lit reading -- ala iPhone or iPad is superior in most cases but can you easily hold your iPad in one hand while reading in bed? The Sony reader, even the relatively larger 900 is easy to read in bed, but it requires light and that bothers your partner. Or it may.

So trade offs are always there, but justification is a red herring that I wish got resolved with automatic hyphenation.

[JSWolf]

Justification for ePub can be turned on or off in the CSS. But to do so for ePub with DRM, you have to first strip the DRM.

[frabjous]

Or even better, you could use Jellby's Prince XML script to convert your ePub to a PDF that has automatic hyphenation at line endings, and whatever font, font-size, etc., you want it to have.

It would definitely be great to have that level of typography for ePub renderers without conversion or CSS editing, however. There's really so excuse. The TeX line breaking algorithm is open source, and more than 20 years old. If computers at that time could handle it, these devices should be able to as well.

[David Munch]

Originally Posted by frabjous

They shouldn't have to pay to program on their own computers. $99 may not seem like a lot, but these things add up, especially if I have to pay this money for every device that any one of my students might be using.

It is actually quite normal for having to pay for developer tools for any hardware device. Its only been within the last 5-10 years that is has become a normal thing for developer tools to be released for free, since companies started realising that it would actually benefit their platforms (Who would have guessed..).

[AprilHare]

Originally Posted by scottjl

The iPad is only available in the US at this time. The US has one official language, English. English has one character set.

Interesting. Not accurate, but interesting.
English has many characters you may not recognize as English characters, but are necessary for some books.
You couldn't publish the original A Christmas Carol without umlauts, for a start.
Limiting character sets limits what you can do in English.
Where would Lord of the Rings be without runes?
Where do you suggest they draw the line?