Fight Flash Here! - Page 8

kennyc · 05-09-2010, 08:03 AM

Here's comments from the Free Software Foundation:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...r-on-flash.ars

Steve Jobs' recent missive on the deficiencies of Adobe's Flash is still reverberating around the Internet. In this guest editorial, John Sullivan of the Free Software Foundation responds, arguing that Apple is presenting users with a false choice between Adobe's proprietary software and Apple's walled garden.

Watching two proprietary software companies deeply opposed to computer user freedom lob accusations back and forth about who is more opposed to freedom has been surreal, to say the least. But what's been crystal clear is that the freedom these companies are arguing about is their own, not that of their users.

....

scottjl · 05-09-2010, 08:34 AM

and that's a surprise? apple is a company like every other company, they are out to sell something and make money doing it. if people don't like what they sell, they won't buy it.

one important difference between apple and adobe. apple actually makes hardware. they sell the platform you run software on. adobe only sells software they want other people to run. they can cry foul all they want, they can find a platform that wants them, or they can make their own hardware and keep apple out of it.

scottjl · 05-09-2010, 09:35 PM

hmm.. some interesting notes from flashcamp seattle...

Flash on Android demo crashes twice. Speaker says "What site would you like to see?" Someone says "Hulu." Speaker says, "Hulu doesn't work."

actually the article is sort of positive about flash, the author notes that it's still in beta and buggy, but he has high hopes for adobe.

guess we'll see in a few months.

Sonist · 05-10-2010, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottjl

You sure must spend a lot of time at Disney....

The point you are missing is that Disney is one of the two media companies where Stave Jobs is the largest shareholder and presumably wields some influence.

Pixar just recently redesigned and went Flash-less, to a much more corporate, non-exciting effect. Now they basically show a simple transition, and their movie pages are reduced to hosting a trailer.

Of course, for the big one coming out, Toy Story 3, the Pixar home page to TS 3's own site, which is, unsurprisingly, in Flash.

I am not understanding this argument. I get it that you are happy for some reason that the iPad does not support one of the most common features on the web.

But why do you have to shout down everyone, who wishes that Apple had at least attempted to provide a real browser for its customers, instead of walling off choices and competition? I suppose you did the same when people were asking for Cut&Paste, or Search, or GPS, or MMS, or LED flash on the iPhone?

I also suppose you supported Steve Jobs when he declared, not so long ago, that nobody reads anymore?

Enjoy your iPad. But chill a little, and let those who wished it did other things have a say.

scottjl · 05-10-2010, 09:26 AM

Sonist, you have your say, and you say the same thing over, and over, and over. The iPad doesn't have flash. The Disney site on the iPad doesn't look and feel the same as your desktop. You won't buy an iPad. As myself and others have acknowledged, we get it, the iPad isn't for you. Why do you persist in talking the same points time and time again? It certainly isn't going to change anything, Flash isn't coming to the iPad and unlikely it ever will. So really, move on and let people who own iPads and want to discuss using them as a reader and as a tool to do so. Your re-iteration of what you perceive as negative points stopping you from buying one doesn't mean the rest of the world won't go on.

This is the Apple forum and is presumably the place where Apple product owners, and people who are interested in purchasing Apple products can come and discuss these products, their use, their features, share knowledge and support. This shouldn't be a place where people can come and bash Apple the company, their policies, their politics, their CEO or anything else for that matter. No, Apple products aren't perfect, and they don't do 100% of everything that everyone could ever ask, but complaining and whineing here isn't going to change that either. You have complaints about Disney's web site, I suggest you contact Disney.

Maybe the moderators can create an "Apple basher's" forum alongside this one where you can lament the lack of Flash and your dislike for Steve Jobs day in and day out. It is certainly a topic you enjoy posting about.

murraypaul · 05-10-2010, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottjl

Sonist, you have your say, and you say the same thing over, and over, and over. [...]
Maybe the moderators can create an "Apple basher's" forum alongside this one where you can lament the lack of Flash and your dislike for Steve Jobs day in and day out. It is certainly a topic you enjoy posting about.

If you wanted a quiet, reasoned debate, then perhaps stating a thread called 'Fight Flash Here!' wasn't such a good idea?

kennyc · 05-10-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottjl

.....
This is the Apple forum and is presumably the place where Apple product owners, and people who are interested in purchasing Apple products can come and discuss these products, their use, their features, share knowledge and support. This shouldn't be a place where people can come and bash Apple the company, their policies, their politics, their CEO or anything else for that matter. .....

No. You are simply wrong. This is NOT a Praise Apple forum no matter that that is what you want. It is a forum to discuss Apple products -- focused on ereaders in particular -- and ALL aspects of them good and bad. If you only want POSITIVE things said then please so away and post on an Apple only forum (of course I suspect even there there is both good and bad).

kennyc · 05-10-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

If you wanted a quiet, reasoned debate, then perhaps stating a thread called 'Fight Flash Here!' wasn't such a good idea?

Great point!

scottjl · 05-10-2010, 11:23 AM

there is a difference between a discussion and beating a dead horse... come up with something new to say already, repeating over and over that the ipad doesn't have flash (news flash) and that Disney offers two different sites for desktop and ipad use is getting boring already. at least make an attempt at being original.

Kenny, I'm still waiting for your explanation of a "real" operating system. maybe you can at least come up with that.

kennyc · 05-10-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottjl

there is a difference between a discussion and beating a dead horse... come up with something new to say already, repeating over and over that the ipad doesn't have flash (news flash) and that Disney offers two different sites for desktop and ipad use is getting boring already. at least make an attempt at being original.

Good point. Please refer to this with regard to your future posts.

scottjl · 05-10-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

Good point. Please refer to this with regard to your future posts.

lol. kettle..

dmaul1114 · 05-10-2010, 06:17 PM

Yeah I'd say "real" operating systems was a poor choice of words. Any operating system is a real operating system.

What I'd say is that I want a tablet with a more robust operating system. Namely, one that has a real file management system and leans more towards being a tablet PC than a media consumption tablet.

I like playing around with my girlfriend's iPad, it's great as an e-reader, for reading news, checking e-mail quickly, reading comics etc. But with it's phone OS, it's just too far from being a computer to fit my work-related needs. Which is my main need in a tablet as I just don't have any need for a pure media consumption tablet. At least not at $500 plus.

I don't necessarily need a full tablet PC, especially since the trade off is much shorter battery life than the iPad. At least for the present--if they could make a Windows 7 tablet that gets 8+ hours of battery life and has as similar form factor to the iPad I'd be all over.

But that's probably years away so I'm fine with a fairly simple OS--as long as it has an open file management system, true drag and drop, USB support for flash drives etc., can run Flash etc. etc.

scottjl · 05-11-2010, 01:19 AM

hmm. infoworld is trying to broker peace between apple and adobe. will it work? I doubt it, jobs is pretty stubborn and adobe would have to release action script to standards bodies, something they have resisted for years (well macromedia did before adobe).

Tamara · 05-11-2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottjl

hmm. infoworld is trying to broker peace between apple and adobe. will it work? I doubt it, jobs is pretty stubborn and adobe would have to release action script to standards bodies, something they have resisted for years (well macromedia did before adobe).

I thought the poll was interesting. Keeping flash off is leading in the poll.

scottjl · 05-11-2010, 08:57 AM

personally I'd keep it off. I keep flash disabled in chrome unless absolutely needed and the only thing I seem to miss is lots of adverts. oh and I guess disney's site.

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05-09-2010, 08:03 AM	#106
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,891 Karma: 119230421 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire	Here's comments from the Free Software Foundation: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...r-on-flash.ars Steve Jobs' recent missive on the deficiencies of Adobe's Flash is still reverberating around the Internet. In this guest editorial, John Sullivan of the Free Software Foundation responds, arguing that Apple is presenting users with a false choice between Adobe's proprietary software and Apple's walled garden. Watching two proprietary software companies deeply opposed to computer user freedom lob accusations back and forth about who is more opposed to freedom has been surreal, to say the least. But what's been crystal clear is that the freedom these companies are arguing about is their own, not that of their users. ....

05-09-2010, 08:34 AM	#107
scottjl Reader of Books Posts: 1,632 Karma: 2697 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	and that's a surprise? apple is a company like every other company, they are out to sell something and make money doing it. if people don't like what they sell, they won't buy it. one important difference between apple and adobe. apple actually makes hardware. they sell the platform you run software on. adobe only sells software they want other people to run. they can cry foul all they want, they can find a platform that wants them, or they can make their own hardware and keep apple out of it.

05-09-2010, 09:35 PM	#108
scottjl Reader of Books Posts: 1,632 Karma: 2697 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	hmm.. some interesting notes from flashcamp seattle... Flash on Android demo crashes twice. Speaker says "What site would you like to see?" Someone says "Hulu." Speaker says, "Hulu doesn't work." actually the article is sort of positive about flash, the author notes that it's still in beta and buggy, but he has high hopes for adobe. guess we'll see in a few months.

05-10-2010, 09:26 AM	#110
scottjl Reader of Books Posts: 1,632 Karma: 2697 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	Sonist, you have your say, and you say the same thing over, and over, and over. The iPad doesn't have flash. The Disney site on the iPad doesn't look and feel the same as your desktop. You won't buy an iPad. As myself and others have acknowledged, we get it, the iPad isn't for you. Why do you persist in talking the same points time and time again? It certainly isn't going to change anything, Flash isn't coming to the iPad and unlikely it ever will. So really, move on and let people who own iPads and want to discuss using them as a reader and as a tool to do so. Your re-iteration of what you perceive as negative points stopping you from buying one doesn't mean the rest of the world won't go on. This is the Apple forum and is presumably the place where Apple product owners, and people who are interested in purchasing Apple products can come and discuss these products, their use, their features, share knowledge and support. This shouldn't be a place where people can come and bash Apple the company, their policies, their politics, their CEO or anything else for that matter. No, Apple products aren't perfect, and they don't do 100% of everything that everyone could ever ask, but complaining and whineing here isn't going to change that either. You have complaints about Disney's web site, I suggest you contact Disney. Maybe the moderators can create an "Apple basher's" forum alongside this one where you can lament the lack of Flash and your dislike for Steve Jobs day in and day out. It is certainly a topic you enjoy posting about.

05-10-2010, 11:23 AM	#114
scottjl Reader of Books Posts: 1,632 Karma: 2697 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	there is a difference between a discussion and beating a dead horse... come up with something new to say already, repeating over and over that the ipad doesn't have flash (news flash) and that Disney offers two different sites for desktop and ipad use is getting boring already. at least make an attempt at being original. Kenny, I'm still waiting for your explanation of a "real" operating system. maybe you can at least come up with that.

05-10-2010, 06:17 PM	#117
dmaul1114 Wizard Posts: 2,300 Karma: 1121709 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle 1	Yeah I'd say "real" operating systems was a poor choice of words. Any operating system is a real operating system. What I'd say is that I want a tablet with a more robust operating system. Namely, one that has a real file management system and leans more towards being a tablet PC than a media consumption tablet. I like playing around with my girlfriend's iPad, it's great as an e-reader, for reading news, checking e-mail quickly, reading comics etc. But with it's phone OS, it's just too far from being a computer to fit my work-related needs. Which is my main need in a tablet as I just don't have any need for a pure media consumption tablet. At least not at $500 plus. I don't necessarily need a full tablet PC, especially since the trade off is much shorter battery life than the iPad. At least for the present--if they could make a Windows 7 tablet that gets 8+ hours of battery life and has as similar form factor to the iPad I'd be all over. But that's probably years away so I'm fine with a fairly simple OS--as long as it has an open file management system, true drag and drop, USB support for flash drives etc., can run Flash etc. etc.

05-11-2010, 01:19 AM	#118
scottjl Reader of Books Posts: 1,632 Karma: 2697 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	hmm. infoworld is trying to broker peace between apple and adobe. will it work? I doubt it, jobs is pretty stubborn and adobe would have to release action script to standards bodies, something they have resisted for years (well macromedia did before adobe).

05-11-2010, 08:57 AM	#120
scottjl Reader of Books Posts: 1,632 Karma: 2697 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	personally I'd keep it off. I keep flash disabled in chrome unless absolutely needed and the only thing I seem to miss is lots of adverts. oh and I guess disney's site.

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