military sci fi suggestions

[wayspooled]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I don't think anyone's recommended this (apologies if I've overlooked it), but another very, very good series, is the "JAG in space" series by John M. Hemry. This is (or was, when I bought it) available as a very reasonably priced "bundle" from Baen.

Basically it's "legal military SF", set in a 22nd century US Space Navy. The books are excellent both as military SF and as legal "thrillers".

It's John G. Hemry, not M.. haha.. you had me searching for that as soon as I read it because that "JAG in space" thing sounds like something I'd like. I'm less into space battles than I am into what causes them and then only battles that make sense (to me) scientifically and economically.

Originally Posted by HarryT

There is? What is it called?

The sequel to Cyteen is Regenesis published earlier this year. And if you like Cyteen then you would probably like it. It continues the story. Cyteen and Regenesis though are heavier books than lots of her others and I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for a first time reader.

For first time readers, at least of the military sci-fi stuff, I liked WillAdams list here with a particularly good link at the bottom on her writing style(s) because she seems to have several -

Originally Posted by WillAdams

X, my recommendation for a first Military SF book by C.J. Cherryh would be _Merchanter's Luck_ which really captures the spirit of the series, then ready _Heavy Time_ and _Hellburner_ and the hook should be set for _Downbelow Station_ at which point _TriPoint_ and _Finity's End_ will make sense. _40,000 in Gehenna_ could be read any time after _Downbelow Station_ (arguably it should be read first, since it contains the history of much of the series).

The author's take on this here:

http://www.cherryh.com/www/univer.htm

an Amazon chronology order here:

http://www.amazon.com/C-Cherryhs-Mer.../1SNH9EPP3740B

Excellent discussion of her writing in general:

http://www.dancingbadger.com/c_j_cherryh.htm

William

Except I'd read Gehenna last. Heh, he did say arguably :P

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by wayspooled

It's John G. Hemry, not M.. haha.. you had me searching for that as soon as I read it because that "JAG in space" thing sounds like something I'd like. I'm less into space battles than I am into what causes them and then only battles that make sense (to me) scientifically and economically.

Sorry about that. Glad you managed to find them, anyway. It's a very good series indeed.

[WillAdams]

Thanks Wayspooled, but I meant that _Downbelow Station_ should be read first, not _40,000 in Gehenna_ (apparently it should be read after _Cyteen_, since sending out the expedition which it covers is a central plot element of _Cyteen_) --- it (40,000) definitely should not be first, since it's dense and requires knowledge of Union politics and Azi status to fully appreciate.

William

[tompe]

Originally Posted by wayspooled

Well go ask her, heh.. She has a blog she posts on and a section for people to ask questions about her books. She's pretty personable. Or wait until she sees the question here, she visits MB once in a while, dunno if she'll see it in this topic though. And she's working on self publishing her backlist books, probably be available in a bit.

I think I or somebody else asked her at a convention in Oslo and the answer was if I remember correctly that either there was no answer or she did not want to give it. My memory is a bit fuzzy about the exact answer.

[wayspooled]

Originally Posted by WillAdams

Thanks Wayspooled, but I meant that _Downbelow Station_ should be read first, not _40,000 in Gehenna_ (apparently it should be read after _Cyteen_, since sending out the expedition which it covers is a central plot element of _Cyteen_) --- it (40,000) definitely should not be first, since it's dense and requires knowledge of Union politics and Azi status to fully appreciate.

William

Yeah, that's true and exactly my experience. First time I tried reading Gehenna was before I'd read Cyteen and it bored the heck out of me and I quit about 1/3 the way through. The second attempt, I was hooked on Cherryh's merchanter Alliance/Union stuff and her rolling downhill prose style, desperate to read something related to A/U and I liked it a lot.

Her publishers have not been good for her in many ways as far as the omnibus/collection reprint editions of stuff. My favorite of hers, the Chanur stuff.. 5 books, The Pride of Chanur, the first, standalone.... the 2nd - 4th are one story she intended published as one book which they split up, but that was okay. Then the last one is standalone. Taken as 3 books, they're just best sci/fi I've ever read or at least as good as anything else I've read. Then like 15 years later they come along and they are republished in two omnibuses with books 1-3 in the first one and 4-5 in the second one. The end of book 3 is like in the middle of a story, like watching a 2 part tv show premiere and then having to wait a year for the 2nd part (2nd omnibus). That kind of stuff is downright offputting to new readers.

Then the overly kitty-like covers of the Chanur stuff, I like them because I love the books but how does someone new to her works expect seriously good work inside? I would never have bought them because of the covers back when I first read them. A big sci/fi fan, someone I worked with loaned me one and said it was the best thing he'd ever read and heh, I didn't even read it for a year. I like dogs and cats, most of my pets have been dogs but we had cats as a kid and I like them fine, but I never wanted to read a sci/fi book about them. Bleh.. But that's not what it's about.. The main chars ancestry is non-earth related feline and it has effect in the story but it's not at all a story about "kitties". It's a story about multiple alien culture's reaction to the unexpected insertion into their "universe" of the existence of the previously unknown human race - the different reactions of 7 completely different alien races - through one human captured off a lost exploration scoutship by one of the other alien races - and escaped onto the docks of the station where all of these species meet to trade... and there's some shipboard combat and space battles but it's the kind that makes believable sense because they're backed up by economy and species survival concerns and individual self interests and pretty accurate science. I just love those Chanur books heh..

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by wayspooled

Then the overly kitty-like covers of the Chanur stuff, I like them because I love the books but how does someone new to her works expect seriously good work inside? I would never have bought them because of the covers back when I first read them. A big sci/fi fan, someone I worked with loaned me one and said it was the best thing he'd ever read and heh, I didn't even read it for a year. I like dogs and cats, most of my pets have been dogs but we had cats as a kid and I like them fine, but I never wanted to read a sci/fi book about them.

Cherryh's publisher for those books was DAW Books, originally founded by the late Donald A. Wollheim. DAW was for its time about what Baen Books is today: a specialist in action/adventure SF and fantasy. Covers tended to be realistic, and Chanur and her crew were feline. Among other things, that series was an exploration of what you might get if a pride of lions were sentient tools users with interstellar travel capability.

So yeah, you'll have "kitty" covers, because the protagonists are felines, and only one human is in the books. What other kind of cover would you expect?
______
Dennis

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Cherryh's publisher for those books was DAW Books, originally founded by the late Donald A. Wollheim. DAW was for its time about what Baen Books is today: a specialist in action/adventure SF and fantasy. Covers tended to be realistic, and Chanur and her crew were feline. Among other things, that series was an exploration of what you might get if a pride of lions were sentient tools users with interstellar travel capability.

So yeah, you'll have "kitty" covers, because the protagonists are felines, and only one human is in the books. What other kind of cover would you expect?
______
Dennis

The covers also implies fluffiness or lightness but that is also a true description of the books. And I think that was a problem with the books. They did not feel as solid as the rest of her books.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by tompe

The covers also implies fluffiness or lightness but that is also a true description of the books. And I think that was a problem with the books. They did not feel as solid as the rest of her books.

Because they had furry animals on the covers?

They felt quite solid for me, and I think I liked the chanur series best of Cherryh's work.
______
Dennis

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Because they had furry animals on the covers?

Mostly the way the pictures were made. The mood of the pictures. And the choice of color scheme (bright colors).

They felt quite solid for me, and I think I liked the chanur series best of Cherryh's work.
______
Dennis

For me it was the other way. Chanur is at the bottom but still kind of fun and good since it is Cherryh.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by tompe

Mostly the way the pictures were made. The mood of the pictures. And the choice of color scheme (bright colors).

Hard not to choose bright colors. The biggest responsibility of the cover artist is to create a cover that impels the buyer to reach for the book and pick it off the bookstore shelf, as the first step towards a purchase. A cover that does that is a success, even if you later conclude it doesn't fit the book.

For me it was the other way. Chanur is at the bottom but still kind of fun and good since it is Cherryh.

Okay, fair enough. How much weight do the covers carry in that ranking?
______
Dennis

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Okay, fair enough. How much weight do the covers carry in that ranking?
______
Dennis

None at all I hope. But I know that most people like these books very much so maybe I should re-read them and see if I have changed my mind.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by tompe

None at all I hope. But I know that most people like these books very much so maybe I should re-read them and see if I have changed my mind.

If you do, let me know if you've changed your opinion.

I ask because how we feel about books is influenced by many factors, and I can certainly see covers being part of the equation.

For instance, one of my favorite SF books as a kid was Ben Bova's first novel, _The Star Conquerors_, published as part of the Winston SF juvenile/YA line in 1959.

I know the cover was a big part of the attraction for me.



There were rumors in later years that Ben was buying up and destroying any copies he could find, as he wasn't happy with his earliest published book. I found it a young and early book by a new author, and Ben has certainly gone on to other better things since, but I didn't think it bad.

There was enough clamor for it over the years that Ben did make a PDF version available from his website for a short period. It's probably still available through a snapshot of Ben's site at archive.org.
______
Dennis

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

There was enough clamor for it over the years that Ben did make a PDF version available from his website for a short period. It's probably still available through a snapshot of Ben's site at archive.org.

It is, or at least was not to long ago.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

It is, or at least was not to long ago.

As far as I know, archive.org still has it. It's just a matter of which of the many snapshots they have archived contains it.

I dropped Ben a note inquiring about possibly converting to other formats. He said he'd pass my comment to his webmaster. I never heard anything further.

I have the PDF, and Mobi Creator did a decent job of ripping it to HTML, so I have Mobi and Plucker formatted versions.
______
Dennis

[Gibbo]

Found it can I post the link?