Report on new firmware? - Page 8

Gaurnim · 07-07-2009, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by becket

I will be happy to have Epub and Mobi on one reader as some books are not available from Fictionwise in England. So I looked at english online book shops with Ebooks and they use Epub alot. So I had been considering another reader, but now I can stay with the one.
Becky

I just want to be sure that it is clear for everyone :
You will not be able to read both Epub and Mobipocket at the same time on you Cybook (or Opus).
You will have to choose between those 2 formats, as they will be supported by different firmwares.

HarryT · 07-07-2009, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuffi

Same here. I have lost a number of legally bought MP3s because that company went under and shut down their drm server, that's not going to happen again to me.

I think you are mistaken. MP3 files do not and cannot have DRM. DRM-protected music files are generally either WMA or AAC format.

gerraldo · 07-07-2009, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuffi

I wonder why the can't put DRM-free ePub support into the mobi FW. We all know that they can't put DRM ePub in this version for legal reasons but why no DRM-free ePub?

They handle the ePub part with Adobe SDK, so they'd need another reader for non-DRM ePub and they seem to have no time, money or whatever to do this. (Why it's not possible to use some open source solution puzzles me, but me keeps thinking Adobe and all the other DRM advocates will be happier this way...)

What worries me still: Will there be any future improvements on the PDF part in the Mobi FW? (As this will come from Adobe SDK as well, will they be allowed to use it in the non-ePub FW???)

Abelturd · 07-07-2009, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerraldo

They handle the ePub part with Adobe SDK, so they'd need another reader for non-DRM ePub and they seem to have no time, money or whatever to do this. (Why it's not possible to use some open source solution puzzles me,

Right you are. I already proposed the idea of adopting FBReader.
Do you hear me, Bookeen? Pretty please.

Snuffi · 07-07-2009, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I think you are mistaken. MP3 files do not and cannot have DRM. DRM-protected music files are generally either WMA or AAC format.

You are absolutely right, my memory of that incident is (luckily) already fading. It was WMA, of course...

Gaurnim · 07-07-2009, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abelturd

Right you are. I already proposed the idea of adopting FBReader.
Do you hear me, Bookeen? Pretty please.

During the rendezvous, we discussed about the possibility to add external applications to the devices, and to allow people to develop them as they see fit.
This would clearly fall into this category and it seems it would be very convenient for Bookeen to expand the list of supported formats without having to do all the work themselves or risking legal problems.

Snuffi · 07-07-2009, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerraldo

They handle the ePub part with Adobe SDK, so they'd need another reader for non-DRM ePub and they seem to have no time, money or whatever to do this. (Why it's not possible to use some open source solution puzzles me, but me keeps thinking Adobe and all the other DRM advocates will be happier this way...)

What worries me still: Will there be any future improvements on the PDF part in the Mobi FW? (As this will come from Adobe SDK as well, will they be allowed to use it in the non-ePub FW???)

Now I get it. I thought the restrictions were only tied to using the DRM-handling components. So Adobe disallows using their SDK if you do not implement DRM? Because if you could use Adobe's SDK to implement DRM-free there would be no collision with Mobipocket.

If, on the other hand, using either MobiPocket or Adobe SDK prevents you from offering any other format even without DRM then i wonder how they can support PDF, HTML, TXT, etc.

Hard to really understand what's going on when I can't read those agreements myself...

gerraldo · 07-07-2009, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuffi

So Adobe disallows using their SDK if you do not implement DRM? Because if you could use Adobe's SDK to implement DRM-free there would be no collision with Mobipocket.

If, on the other hand, using either MobiPocket or Adobe SDK prevents you from offering any other format even without DRM then i wonder how they can support PDF, HTML, TXT, etc.

I think the ePub reader from Adobe SDK is just available in one flavour - DRMed. There simply is no DRM-free version...

And no, it's just other DRMed formats that can't be used.

Snuffi · 07-07-2009, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerraldo

I think the ePub reader from Adobe SDK is just available in one flavour - DRMed. There simply is no DRM-free version...

And no, it's just other DRMed formats that can't be used.

But then it would be possible to offer .prc support (non-DRM) in the ePub version. I wonder how the other readers/tools out there do it if the SDK provides only DRM-ed mobipocket support.
E.g. calibre can read and write .prc files (of course only non-DRM), so I assume there must be some way to access the SDK without the DRM components.
But of course the contracts might be different for programmers of tools versus programmers of readers/display software...

Jellby · 07-07-2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuffi

But then it would be possible to offer .prc support (non-DRM) in the ePub version. I wonder how the other readers/tools out there do it if the SDK provides only DRM-ed mobipocket support.
E.g. calibre can read and write .prc files (of course only non-DRM), so I assume there must be some way to access the SDK without the DRM components.

But maybe they can't use Mobipocket's SDK without DRM, just as they can't use Adobe's without DRM. So they would need some alternate software for either .prc or .epub (or both) without DRM. It's possible, yes, there's no otherworldy mystery in those formats, open solutions exist or can be developed... but that needs time, work, testing, etc., which it seem's they don't have.

On the other hand, I really wish they would develop their own solutions instead of relying only on Mobipocket and Adobe, I want someone to provide more features, to fix bugs and remove limitations, I don't want the same old problems and restrictions to appear in every other reader.

Godzil · 07-07-2009, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

But maybe they can't use Mobipocket's SDK without DRM, just as they can't use Adobe's without DRM. So they would need some alternate software for either .prc or .epub (or both) without DRM. It's possible, yes, there's no otherworldy mystery in those formats, open solutions exist or can be developed... but that needs time, work, testing, etc., which it seem's they don't have.

On the other hand, I really wish they would develop their own solutions instead of relying only on Mobipocket and Adobe, I want someone to provide more features, to fix bugs and remove limitations, I don't want the same old problems and restrictions to appear in every other reader.

But if they make their own solutions WHO will use it?
If they made their own DRM solution, I doubt that any editors will use it
If they made their own non DRM solutions, they won't be able to read any book with DRM.

And if you want to read Mobi or Adobe ADEPT (or any other existing DRM solutions) you *NEED* to use the SDK that come with. And for Mobi or Adobe ADEPT, we already discuss the limitations that goes with...

Jellby · 07-07-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzil

But if they make their own solutions WHO will use it?
If they made their own DRM solution, I doubt that any editors will use it
If they made their own non DRM solutions, they won't be able to read any book with DRM.

And if you want to read Mobi or Adobe ADEPT (or any other existing DRM solutions) you *NEED* to use the SDK that come with. And for Mobi or Adobe ADEPT, we already discuss the limitations that goes with...

I meant their own solution for reading non-DRM files. They would use it themselves, of course, and they would use it in conjunction with whichever DRM solution they choose: ADEPT plus custom mobi, or Mobi-DRM plus custom ePUB, or custom mobi and ePUB (without any DRM support).

Godzil · 07-07-2009, 08:10 AM

But until now they where able to only read Mobi file, and the Mobi SDK is able to read DRMed and unDRMed Mobi file, so why bother to add another Mobi reader that will be usefull for nothing more than duplicate the code and possibly have bug on one version and bug on the other.

That the same for ePub, now they have access to the Adobe SDK that provide well made ePub reader, why did they need to bother to make another ePub reader that will introduce bugs that the other may not have?

Making a eBook format reader is not like cliking a checkbox... I don't know how much code Mobi or ePub parser need to be functional, but it surely need a lot month of man work to do them...

Gaurnim · 07-07-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzil

But until now they where able to only read Mobi file, and the Mobi SDK is able to read DRMed and unDRMed Mobi file, so why bother to add another Mobi reader that will be usefull for nothing more than duplicate the code and possibly have bug on one version and bug on the other.

That the same for ePub, now they have access to the Adobe SDK that provide well made ePub reader, why did they need to bother to make another ePub reader that will introduce bugs that the other may not have?

Because it seems that a lot of persons are not ready to completely drop MobiPocket to gain access to Epub.
I don't think that they should develop their own version, as it would not be worth the effort. But including a tool such as FBReader would allow use to choose our DRM flavour without having to abandon a format for which we might have several hundred ebooks already existing.
For those able to do it legally, liberating MobiPocket is much simpler than converting all Mobipocket to Epub.
This would allow to keep the entire MobiPocket collection and still have access to Epub.

Godzil · 07-07-2009, 09:27 AM

Gaurnim: I know, and I hope they concider using other engine. But it's anyway a lot of work. (and the FBreader engine may suffer from bug that the mobi sdk doesn't have (and vice-versa)

I merely prefere that Mobi/Amazon will drop this stupid restriction, and I hope that we can make them to drop it if they are reluctant about it. Such a restriction is really a pain for all of their users. The choice of DRM is currently not done by the user, but by the editor, and since all editor does not publish in all existing formats, a device with such an exclusive restriction is doomed. (and the format too)

07-07-2009, 08:10 AM	#118
Godzil a pthread?? where? where? Posts: 1,763 Karma: 30462 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Somewhere in EU Device: Newton MessagePad 2100, and only this	But until now they where able to only read Mobi file, and the Mobi SDK is able to read DRMed and unDRMed Mobi file, so why bother to add another Mobi reader that will be usefull for nothing more than duplicate the code and possibly have bug on one version and bug on the other. That the same for ePub, now they have access to the Adobe SDK that provide well made ePub reader, why did they need to bother to make another ePub reader that will introduce bugs that the other may not have? Making a eBook format reader is not like cliking a checkbox... I don't know how much code Mobi or ePub parser need to be functional, but it surely need a lot month of man work to do them... Last edited by Godzil; 07-07-2009 at 08:12 AM.

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07-07-2009, 09:27 AM	#120
Godzil a pthread?? where? where? Posts: 1,763 Karma: 30462 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Somewhere in EU Device: Newton MessagePad 2100, and only this	Gaurnim: I know, and I hope they concider using other engine. But it's anyway a lot of work. (and the FBreader engine may suffer from bug that the mobi sdk doesn't have (and vice-versa) I merely prefere that Mobi/Amazon will drop this stupid restriction, and I hope that we can make them to drop it if they are reluctant about it. Such a restriction is really a pain for all of their users. The choice of DRM is currently not done by the user, but by the editor, and since all editor does not publish in all existing formats, a device with such an exclusive restriction is doomed. (and the format too)

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