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#106 | ||
Zealot
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Device: Amazon Kindle
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I don’t buy the black and white idea that all corporations are bad – it’s simply not true. And though I respect the hippie movement on some levels, many of the tenants it espoused are simply not sustainable (not to mention, attainable) in the real world. Which is why, outside of university life, the hippie movement is pretty much dead. The reason being, our parents came to the realization that in adult life, a free-loving, free-living lifestyle is not so good at keeping a roof over your head, and food on the table. I may not like that reality any more than you do, but like it or not, it is what it is – r.e.a.l.i.t.y Whether you like it or not, art is a commodity, and it’s creators are every bit as entitled to profit from it’s sale as those who traffic in toasters and refrigerators. Quote:
Last edited by Good Old Neon; 04-17-2009 at 04:20 PM. |
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#107 | |||||
Wizard
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Device: Kobo Libra Colour, Kindle Paperwhite Signature Edition (2021)
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In the case of BitTorrent (and Pirate Bay, specifically), there's nothing being put in a shared space. The file resides on the seeder's hard drive, and it's copied, bit for bit, to the recipients' hard drives. It's not being shared. It's being copied. Quote:
The primary reason that DRM-free music works is because the hardware involved (primarily, the MP3 players) became easy enough to use, and the associated software (including the MP3 format) became good enough for consumers to easily download, store, play, search, manipulate (e.g., normalization), and catalogue their music -- with standards that were developed. Ebooks, by contrast, have very few of those things. The reader hardware is good, but not necessarily great, and it's relatively expensive. Ebooks can come in several different formats (not including DRM formats), and there are metadata issues. Don't get me wrong: I love my Kindle, but there's a distance to go yet, before ebook readers will be ready for the masses. (The introduction of color e-Ink will obviously be a huge step in the right direction, as would the ability to have a light of some kind built-in to the book, which so far has proven difficult for e-Ink devices.) On top of all this, DRM-free e-book experiments have not gone all that well. Consider what happened with Stephen King's The Plant. And that was Stephen King, who doesn't usually have problems getting people to pay for his books. That's an oversimplification. Like any other technology, DRM is only "evil" if you want to do something the DRM wasn't designed for. I have a TiVo that uses DRM, but the files it produces can be used in a lot of places, including other people's devices (although not TiVos) if I choose to let them use them. The DRM is simply a watermark that lets content providers know where a file came from, to discourage people from going to The Pirate Bay and "sharing" the video to 10,000 of their close, personal friends. Quote:
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2) In regards to "damaging the market", there's nothing to "prove". Every time a person downloads a book that is under copyright and is being sold, that's another sale the author and publisher don't get. You can't even make the argument, like you can for music, that people can try a part and buy the rest if they like it, because ebooks are continuous works. (And in fact, selling by the chapter is the method that Stephen King tried for "The Plant"). 3) Publishers have learned from the music industry. That's why you see them protecting their intellectual property now, before it's too late. Remember: DRM was a response to piracy for the music industry (which should have learned the lesson well from the software industry, but didn't). It started with copy protection on CDs, and then moved to copy-protection on music store files, once the music industry realized that copy-protected CDs weren't going to sell. It was the rejection by consumers of DRM'd CDs that backed the music industry into a corner. Because consumers rejected copyprotected CDs, there was no way for the music industry to stop the bleeding, other than selling music online. (If you can't sell a copy-protected CD, you can't prevent people from ripping to MP3, so you might as well give them a digital file.) The final leap to MP3 format (for most online music stores, at least) was the pressure of sites like eMusic.com, that did sell MP3 files (albeit from indie/less popular artists), that took the first step into the MP3 sales arena, and offered better quality sound (and certainly better tagging) than you could get for free. Ebooks will be able to circumvent some of that experimentation (e.g., there's no need to copy-protect paper books, since the barrier to copying is so high in the first place), but some vendor is going to have to be the first DRM-free vendor to really make a success of it, before things start moving in the DRM-free direction. That won't happen until ebook readers are more than a niche product, which they still are, at this point. |
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#108 |
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
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Karma: 23555235
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
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about the 100 neo-nazi candidates
Someone sent me a link, so I now know that it is mostly BS. Here is the original source:
http://translate.google.com/translat...ie=ISO-8859-1# The 100 candidates were not running for political office; they were running for the board of a Swedish nonprofit called Skattebetalarnas förening (http://translate.google.com/translat...tbb=1&ie=UTF-8). And the neo nazis were actually members of the Swedish Democrats. Having looked at Wikipedia entry, I have to say that if members of the SD party are neo nazis, then so is most of the Republican Party in the US. The positions as stated in the Wikipedia article are not that different. |
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#109 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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Location: Linköpng, Sweden
Device: Kindle Voyage, Nexus 5, Kindle PW
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#110 | |
Zealot
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Karma: 114
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Device: Amazon Kindle
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#111 | |
Wizzard
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Karma: 2000000
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Device: iPad 2, iPhone 6s, Kindle Voyage & Kindle PaperWhite
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Last edited by gwynevans; 04-17-2009 at 04:43 PM. Reason: Removed spurious apostrophe |
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#112 | ||
Zealot
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Device: Amazon Kindle
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Moejoe has made his disdain for copyright law in relation to the “free-flow” of information rather clear – the use of “good news” to describe events he feels will result from this decision, suggests, to me, that he is pleased that those in question will be held up as Rock Stars or martyrs of some sort. He may choose to regard them as freedom fighters of a sort, I, on the other hand, do not. Last edited by Good Old Neon; 04-17-2009 at 04:56 PM. |
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#113 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
MIA ... but returning som
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Karma: 511342
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Germany
Device: PRS-505 and *Really* not owning a PRS-700
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Actually that is the reasoning the publishing industry is using (its the content, not the container thats matters) - so P2P is sharing. Quote:
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There NEVER was a real test of drm-free e-books in a large market.. Quote:
Apart from that: Why should I pay MORE for an ebook then for a pbook while getting much less? (and that is primarly drms fault). I can understand the usage of DRM in SOME special markets - but not in large content-markets. Either I pay for the container (then do I want to be able to resell it and do whatever I want with this container) or I pay for the content - then I will be able to read it any way I like (etc). NONE of this is given with DRM. Quote:
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Thus they were forced to provide a better market - first trying medium quality DRM'd, then somehow better, now DRM-free. No, I really believe P2P enabled this market change. Quote:
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And whats the meaning of "knowing full that they will get less" - they do NOT know this. They never once tried. Quote:
They prefer suing and repelling their customers before they even try to test something. To quote Joda: That is why they fail. Quote:
And - you can see this with the (now) working music market - people do go for "legal" markets - if they are fair, provide at least some service (not what Thalia and Co are doing now) and provide high quality to fair prices. Whatever - I am NOT arguing against publishers, authors, musicians, etc owning money. I want to do the same... Quote:
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And yes - I can make this argument. Or you could say that libraries are destroying the market - essentially they provide the same. Quote:
In Germany the ebook-market is a bad joke - its low quality, its nearly no service (to a point that I believe to be illegal), they are only supporting ONE format, etc - this is NOT learning from the music industry. This is redoing the same errors over and over again. Quote:
They might have started DRM as a response to piracy - but it was the wrong one. They once jumped for the wrong horse, and they continue betting on it. Quote:
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#114 |
MIA ... but returning som
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Location: Germany
Device: PRS-505 and *Really* not owning a PRS-700
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#115 |
Zealot
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Device: Amazon Kindle
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#116 | |||
creator of calibre
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
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So TPB and other content sharing methods are just that, content sharing methods. Quote:
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#117 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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Location: Linköpng, Sweden
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But this is diminishing returns so I will not respont more in this thread since you do not seem to understand at all what I am saying. |
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#118 |
Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South of the Border
Device: Coffin
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Clarification of my earlier statement (not that it should need any):
By putting them on trial and then convicting them of a "crime" that a lot of people don't consider a "crime" you make them into heroes, Rock Stars, lauded within the community that they represent. Once the conviction is then quashed at a later stage, they are not only seen as heroes, but as David's against the media "Goliath". The victory of the prosecutors is pyrrhic at best. They've gained nothing but a short-lived victory, whilst at the same time giving file sharers worldwide exposure. They've further ostracised the very people who might be their customers now and in the future. The example of Mick Jagger was apt in this situation for he was charged with an offense that his fans, and many others in society, thought was ludicrous. The victory of the prosecution in that case did nothing but gain The Rolling Stones more fans and popularise the idea of smoking pot. Make it "groovy" if you will ![]() |
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#119 | |
Reader
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Wales, UK
Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G
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However, when undercover reporters record their meetings and rallies, it is an entirely different story, and racist hate-speech has often been recorded. Currently UK police officers are not allowed to join the BNP because it is felt that they would not be impartial to all members of the community. I've seen the effects of hate-speech. Racists murdered a refugee in the grounds of our local hospital a few years ago. They killed the man in front of his young step-daughter. Her father had been killed in her home country. Her mother had died after an illness. She lost the only other person in this country who was close to her. The BNP failed to condemn the murder and have stood regularly for election in that constituency ever since. If you are in the UK then I urge you to vote in the forthcoming EU elections. If you don't, then the BNP could benefit from the system of proportional representation. Meanwhile, remember that political groups often say things for public consumption. It is safest to look at their actions and omissions. |
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#120 | ||
Grand Sorcerer
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Karma: 37057604
Join Date: Jan 2008
Device: Pocketbook
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A few factual clarifcations first...
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