Ebooks on bittorrent! - Page 8

HarryT · 12-17-2008, 02:50 AM

I spend on average, 3-4 weeks at about 4 hours a day creating one of my Dickens books. That's about 80-100 hours of work to create the book. I then upload it for people to download for free.

Quite frankly I'm disappointed that there are some people who have the confounded cheek to WHINE about the fact that it takes 3 mouse clicks to download it, rather then being "optimized" to allow them to "grab all the free stuff" with the least possible work

Might I respectfully suggest to some of the people with free time on their hands that they would be more profitably employed in creating some books themselves, to share with others?

ProDigit · 12-17-2008, 07:31 PM

I've worked on my books long enough too, 48 hours on the YLT bible.
Yet I don't mind making the downloading of the book easier.
I don't mind someone mass downloading.

A question might be, why do you so much want someone to go through the trouble of multi clicks, just because you formatted the book?
As someone who works on books supposed to know, clicking and typing, is work.
Effort.
Why wish that upon someone else?
Isn't that why you post books on here? To make them easily accessible for anyone?

If from tomorrow, everyone's books would be 1-click downloads, except for yours, wouldn't it make your books a bit 'out of place'?

I think it has to do with a personal pride issue, where you don't want to grant someone something easy what you've worked hard on,and yes, that's another issue that everyone who creates books here gets faced with.

I don't think we thanked the people of Gutenberg enough for their efforts neither!

For it takes longer and more effort to actually create electronic version from the print, and post it online, than it does to format a book.

I think you should know you're doing work for free, and that apart from Karma, and some people's appreciation, there's nothing you'd earn from creating books.

I mean, it's nothing personal to you, but I've read over and over again, people who just say no, because they've worked hard, don't want to, or whatever personal emotion they may have, and want people to see their names...
And for real.. If you go to the movies, the last thing you'd probably see is the credits.
Most people are out of the movies (cinema) before the credits start. They just wanna see the movie, and honestly don't care about who made it.

And same goes for here..
And same goes for my books as well.

I'm happy if someone takes the time to thank me for my work, but will never make someone's life more miserable just because he or she did not credit me for the book they downloaded from me.

This credit issue should be separate from making the access easier to some that want easy access to the books.

That'd be my say in it.

Nono, I may sound angry, but I'm not.. lol..

Amalthia · 12-19-2008, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I spend on average, 3-4 weeks at about 4 hours a day creating one of my Dickens books. That's about 80-100 hours of work to create the book. I then upload it for people to download for free.

Quite frankly I'm disappointed that there are some people who have the confounded cheek to WHINE about the fact that it takes 3 mouse clicks to download it, rather then being "optimized" to allow them to "grab all the free stuff" with the least possible work

Might I respectfully suggest to some of the people with free time on their hands that they would be more profitably employed in creating some books themselves, to share with others?

Hi Harry,

I also spend a lot of time formatting stories for the Ebook Library and I've shared all the files in various ways since I opened the archive. For most people downloading the story they find works just fine for them but there are cases where it's really nice to be able to download a lot at once and run out the door.

I think because I never minded sharing my efforts with others I have a hard time seeing the other pov.

Ea · 12-19-2008, 02:24 AM

#107 ProDigit and #108 Amalthia
I tried writing something along these lines Wednesday, but gave up as I couldn't express myself properly. You can, however - thank you.

I've had a discussion like this about publishing fanfiction in zines vs. the Internet, with the exact same type of arguments for and against. I don't see myself why things should be made more difficult on purpose. I believe I understand the feelings behind being reluctant to share freely, because I also feel protective of the things I create, and I like getting recognition, but then I think of all the free content and entertainment I get from the Internet - it's just giving back, and why not make it as easily accessible as I can?

Signed,
A. Whiner

mtravellerh · 12-20-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Ea_

#107 ProDigit and #108 Amalthia
I tried writing something along these lines Wednesday, but gave up as I couldn't express myself properly. You can, however - thank you.

I've had a discussion like this about publishing fanfiction in zines vs. the Internet, with the exact same type of arguments for and against. I don't see myself why things should be made more difficult on purpose. I believe I understand the feelings behind being reluctant to share freely, because I also feel protective of the things I create, and I like getting recognition, but then I think of all the free content and entertainment I get from the Internet - it's just giving back, and why not make it as easily accessible as I can?

Signed,
A. Whiner

Nobody is "reluctant to share freely" and we all do. We support strongly ameliorations that simplify the access to "our" books. What we do not support is anonymous p2p sharing! You are fighting against windmills here.

tompe · 12-20-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtravellerh

Nobody is "reluctant to share freely" and we all do. We support strongly ameliorations that simplify the access to "our" books. What we do not support is anonymous p2p sharing! You are fighting against windmills here.

I do not think you understand the point. If you share something freely that is for me that you do not add condition on the sharing with the purpose to get something back. You do not feel that you have to get something back personally. What I see here is that people want to get something back.

That is the same attitude I see in forums when people get angry when they do not get karma or similar.

I just think it is two clashing viewpoints. I do thins and contribute them to make things better. I do not do it for personal gain (like receiving thanks and so on).

I have no problem with people doing things and having condition on it. But it is not sharing freely.

mazzeltjes · 12-20-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtravellerh

What we do not support is anonymous p2p sharing!

So downloading from the forum is a more private
personal thing ?
Like we all know each other ?

In my opinion someone might easily download all
the books here in a weekend or 2,and torrent them.

By sharing these books here they are being shared
with any googler.
Why not keep the matter in your own hands
and torrent them ?
Sort of a Gutenberg project re-loaded,
in big bites.

mtravellerh · 12-20-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

I do not think you understand the point. If you share something freely that is for me that you do not add condition on the sharing with the purpose to get something back. You do not feel that you have to get something back personally. What I see here is that people want to get something back.

That is the same attitude I see in forums when people get angry when they do not get karma or similar.

I just think it is two clashing viewpoints. I do thins and contribute them to make things better. I do not do it for personal gain (like receiving thanks and so on).

I have no problem with people doing things and having condition on it. But it is not sharing freely.

I think quite honestly that you are the one not getting the point here.

1: There are legal issues with distributing these books via bittorrent, especially concerning copyright and the hosting places of the respective sharers. Really not good to even begin to think about this.
2: I wouldn't like to have to download tens or hundreds of books to get the one I want.
3: There is no personal gain or honor in it for us ebook assemblers. I wouldn't mind cooperating in an anonymous book portal (oh, in fact I DO cooperate in several) and do not feel less well because of it (maybe I like to share and give back).
4. I prefer a userfriendly book interface with facts about the author and book and description of genre.

yvanleterrible · 12-20-2008, 04:12 PM

As a last ditch effort to explain my views and feelings about it all, I'll just say this. I'm pretty sure it will be criticized and called provocation.

A book is a consumable such as food. It is to be enjoyed one meal at a time as the need and taste arises. Would I order 1000 burgers in one shot, just because I can? No, and no books do not spoil as food does, but is there no enjoyment in choosing the next reading? I often do research on a work before I savor it; and that in itself is also entertainment.

eboulimia? Probably that "huge data acquisition" thing might be a pleasure but it does not reach me as such. Consider me blind to this. If it is a bragging right about owning a big library, I will understand. Although it does not appeal to me.(It reminds me of those big filled high capacity SD cards.)

Old fashionned? Yes I am. I've been raised as a reader to wait for the next book from an author. Having to wait for a book makes it more enjoyable, just as it is for any promise that fulfills itself. The longer the better...sometimes.

Krystian Galaj · 12-20-2008, 05:34 PM

Do you buy bread in chunks, only as big as you want to eat for every meal too?

Andurian · 12-20-2008, 05:35 PM

"A book is a consumable such as food. It is to be enjoyed one meal at a time as the need and taste arises."

And the ten thousand year old tradition of the larder is dead.

Not to mention the shockingly barbaric concept of the home library.

Amalthia · 12-20-2008, 06:03 PM

I don't see why adding an attached notepad with information about MobileRead to the torrents wouldn't work? As well as a list of who contributed the ebooks. Demoniod has a policy where if you use their torrent tracker you're supposed to let people know it's a demonoid torrent. Basically, using the attached notepad for possible mobileread torrents would be one way to impart information for anyone downloading torrents. Torrents don't have to be completely anonymous and void of information as to who contributed.

Also, 1 file with 4 gigs of books is probably impractical. I'm not sure why that keeps coming up when it's been said earlier that the best way to use torrents if they were to be used would be in smaller grouping of files.

ProDigit · 12-22-2008, 01:18 PM

I initially started out with the topic to torrent the books; however after some time we all agreed on this thread, that torrenting would be too difficult to maintain, and the cost of organizing, updating, maintaining will outnumber the benefit of only very few who use bittorrent to download 'everything'.

the creation of 'packs' could be good as long as users don't change the name of their ebook files when updating.

A lot of the latter replies on the topic have already been discussed previous in the thread.

So far I think the best solution would be to have 'packs' available. Eg: "Harvard classic pack", or packs on authors, or topics (eg: thriller, Christianity, SF, roman,...)

Jellby · 12-22-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDigit

So far I think the best solution would be to have 'packs' available. Eg: "Harvard classic pack", or packs on authors, or topics (eg: thriller, Christianity, SF, roman,...)

And those packs could be user-created, some sort of "playlist". Let's brainstorm:

I want to make available a pack with all Edgar Wallace's works in mobipocket format, which HarryT has already posted individually. I start a thread (maybe in a dedicated forum) or edit a Wiki page... and with some "nice-ish" interface I select the files I want to include in the pack... and then anyone can download it as a single .zip file or whatever.

I can, of course, (or anyone else) edit the pack and add or remove files. Ideally, if some of the files already in the pack is updated, this would automatically update the pack as well, but if not possible, at least a note should appear in the post or page saying that "some files have been modified since the pack's creation, the changes are not transmitted to the pack" or whatever.

Does it sound right?

Alexander Turcic · 12-23-2008, 03:41 AM

I am not trying to take any sides here but just wanted to throw in that we've always offered our full support in improving the e-book section - which could include easier access to the downloads and to downloads of similar content.

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12-17-2008, 02:50 AM	#106
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I spend on average, 3-4 weeks at about 4 hours a day creating one of my Dickens books. That's about 80-100 hours of work to create the book. I then upload it for people to download for free. Quite frankly I'm disappointed that there are some people who have the confounded cheek to WHINE about the fact that it takes 3 mouse clicks to download it, rather then being "optimized" to allow them to "grab all the free stuff" with the least possible work Might I respectfully suggest to some of the people with free time on their hands that they would be more profitably employed in creating some books themselves, to share with others?

12-17-2008, 07:31 PM	#107
ProDigit Karmaniac Posts: 2,553 Karma: 11499146 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Miami FL Device: PRS-505, Jetbook, + Mini, +Color, Astak Ez Reader Pro, PPW1, Aura H2O	I've worked on my books long enough too, 48 hours on the YLT bible. Yet I don't mind making the downloading of the book easier. I don't mind someone mass downloading. A question might be, why do you so much want someone to go through the trouble of multi clicks, just because you formatted the book? As someone who works on books supposed to know, clicking and typing, is work. Effort. Why wish that upon someone else? Isn't that why you post books on here? To make them easily accessible for anyone? If from tomorrow, everyone's books would be 1-click downloads, except for yours, wouldn't it make your books a bit 'out of place'? I think it has to do with a personal pride issue, where you don't want to grant someone something easy what you've worked hard on,and yes, that's another issue that everyone who creates books here gets faced with. I don't think we thanked the people of Gutenberg enough for their efforts neither! For it takes longer and more effort to actually create electronic version from the print, and post it online, than it does to format a book. I think you should know you're doing work for free, and that apart from Karma, and some people's appreciation, there's nothing you'd earn from creating books. I mean, it's nothing personal to you, but I've read over and over again, people who just say no, because they've worked hard, don't want to, or whatever personal emotion they may have, and want people to see their names... And for real.. If you go to the movies, the last thing you'd probably see is the credits. Most people are out of the movies (cinema) before the credits start. They just wanna see the movie, and honestly don't care about who made it. And same goes for here.. And same goes for my books as well. I'm happy if someone takes the time to thank me for my work, but will never make someone's life more miserable just because he or she did not credit me for the book they downloaded from me. This credit issue should be separate from making the access easier to some that want easy access to the books. That'd be my say in it. Nono, I may sound angry, but I'm not.. lol..

12-19-2008, 02:24 AM	#109
Ea Wizard Posts: 3,490 Karma: 5239563 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Denmark Device: Kindle 3\|iPad air\|iPhone 4S	#107 ProDigit and #108 Amalthia I tried writing something along these lines Wednesday, but gave up as I couldn't express myself properly. You can, however - thank you. I've had a discussion like this about publishing fanfiction in zines vs. the Internet, with the exact same type of arguments for and against. I don't see myself why things should be made more difficult on purpose. I believe I understand the feelings behind being reluctant to share freely, because I also feel protective of the things I create, and I like getting recognition, but then I think of all the free content and entertainment I get from the Internet - it's just giving back, and why not make it as easily accessible as I can? Signed, A. Whiner

12-20-2008, 04:12 PM	#114
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	As a last ditch effort to explain my views and feelings about it all, I'll just say this. I'm pretty sure it will be criticized and called provocation. A book is a consumable such as food. It is to be enjoyed one meal at a time as the need and taste arises. Would I order 1000 burgers in one shot, just because I can? No, and no books do not spoil as food does, but is there no enjoyment in choosing the next reading? I often do research on a work before I savor it; and that in itself is also entertainment. eboulimia? Probably that "huge data acquisition" thing might be a pleasure but it does not reach me as such. Consider me blind to this. If it is a bragging right about owning a big library, I will understand. Although it does not appeal to me.(It reminds me of those big filled high capacity SD cards.) Old fashionned? Yes I am. I've been raised as a reader to wait for the next book from an author. Having to wait for a book makes it more enjoyable, just as it is for any promise that fulfills itself. The longer the better...sometimes.

12-20-2008, 05:34 PM	#115
Krystian Galaj Guru Posts: 820 Karma: 11012 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Warsaw, Poland Device: Bookeen Cybook	Do you buy bread in chunks, only as big as you want to eat for every meal too?

12-20-2008, 05:35 PM	#116
Andurian You really should try it! Posts: 57 Karma: 137 Join Date: Nov 2008 Device: PRS-500	"A book is a consumable such as food. It is to be enjoyed one meal at a time as the need and taste arises." And the ten thousand year old tradition of the larder is dead. Not to mention the shockingly barbaric concept of the home library.

12-20-2008, 06:03 PM	#117
Amalthia Wizard Posts: 1,185 Karma: 32196 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Anchorage, AK Device: Sony Reader PRS-505, PRS-650, PRS-T3, Pocketbook HD2	I don't see why adding an attached notepad with information about MobileRead to the torrents wouldn't work? As well as a list of who contributed the ebooks. Demoniod has a policy where if you use their torrent tracker you're supposed to let people know it's a demonoid torrent. Basically, using the attached notepad for possible mobileread torrents would be one way to impart information for anyone downloading torrents. Torrents don't have to be completely anonymous and void of information as to who contributed. Also, 1 file with 4 gigs of books is probably impractical. I'm not sure why that keeps coming up when it's been said earlier that the best way to use torrents if they were to be used would be in smaller grouping of files.

12-22-2008, 01:18 PM	#118
ProDigit Karmaniac Posts: 2,553 Karma: 11499146 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Miami FL Device: PRS-505, Jetbook, + Mini, +Color, Astak Ez Reader Pro, PPW1, Aura H2O	I initially started out with the topic to torrent the books; however after some time we all agreed on this thread, that torrenting would be too difficult to maintain, and the cost of organizing, updating, maintaining will outnumber the benefit of only very few who use bittorrent to download 'everything'. the creation of 'packs' could be good as long as users don't change the name of their ebook files when updating. A lot of the latter replies on the topic have already been discussed previous in the thread. So far I think the best solution would be to have 'packs' available. Eg: "Harvard classic pack", or packs on authors, or topics (eg: thriller, Christianity, SF, roman,...)

12-23-2008, 03:41 AM	#120
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,175 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	I am not trying to take any sides here but just wanted to throw in that we've always offered our full support in improving the e-book section - which could include easier access to the downloads and to downloads of similar content.

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