Dealing with Amazon can be a right pain

[JSWolf]

The World is NOT just the US. So for Amazon to (in good conscience) to call the service Kindle World, it should be available to all countries where Amazon sells eBooks. Otherwise call it Kindle USA.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The World is NOT just the US. So for Amazon to (in good conscience) to call the service Kindle World, it should be available to all countries where Amazon sells eBooks. Otherwise call it Kindle USA.

I think the "World" part of it refers to authors writing for worlds created by other authors.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I don't think a refund should be given. I think the 4th book should be allowed to be purchased.

And I'm perfectly OK with you thinking that. Hell, I think they should be allowed to buy it, too. I just don't realistically see it happening (and I don't believe Amazon has any moral, legal, or obligatory responsibility to sell it).

[John F]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Does it have to be a real address? A real address that I'm not so much -- you know -- living at?

I'm going to say no, it doesn't have to be a real address. If you read through the Kobo discounts thread, I believe you'll find many people saying they simply change their address (it doesn't have to be valid) to get around couponing geo restrictions, so I believe you can get around other geo-retrictions also.

[barryem]

I can imagine how difficult it might be to implement geo-restrictions in software and how many loose ends they have to tie up. They have to consider the rules of the publisher and of the publisher's contract with the author as well as the laws of the various countries, for each book.

I used to be a programmer for a multinational financial corporation which owned a lot of mutual funds among other things and every share we sold as well as every investment made by the various funds had to be vetted according to the charter of the fund, the laws of the state the fund resided in as well as the laws of the nation and state where it was being purchased. This was a huge undertaking. It can get incredibly complex. Knowing that it was impossible to always get it right we had to always err conservatively and even that was extremely complex.

I imagine Amazon faces something of the same thing with automating geo-restrictions although the penalty for getting it wrong is less severe. It's entirely understandable that mistakes will be made. In fact it's inconceivable that they wouldn't make mistakes.

Our company wrote our software in-house for almost everything. We had one of the earliest automation systems and certainly the most comprehensive and sophisticated one in the business. But the vetting of transactions was never considered for in-house automation. We used third party software for that. It was just too big a job to do in-house. It's the only software we wouldn't do ourselves.

Barry

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by LadyKate

Timboli, you should contact the author directly. Perhaps on facebook?

Tell him/her how much you want to read the final installment, and how you had purchased and read the first three and ask if there is some way to get a copy of the final installment?

I have indeed done that, even gave them my email address on request, over a week ago now.

Not heard back since, even though the author offered to help me.

Maybe they were busy, perhaps still are .... or have become aware of my getting a refund, and think it not worth bothering with anymore?

I will be sending them an email shortly, to explain I am quite happy to re-buy those 3 parts again, if I can get the 4th. Especially if I can get them in the now complete ebook, which contains all 4 parts. Hell, that could even work out cheaper. And if I can bypass Amazon to do it, even better.

I don't know how some can say the things they do say in this topic, it beggars belief for me. Some of it is purely irrelevant.

How can one get past the fact, that they Amazon, are a service a facilitator, and that is what both the buyers and sellers pay them for. Clearly they are not living up to their duty and obligations ... especially when they call all the shots. Without us, they are nothing ... they should not forget that.

P.S. Over the years I have been in contact with other authors or seen comments they have written, and many aren't happy with Amazon, but deal with them because they are forced to. One author (Piers Anthony) a year or two back, even sold me an ebook directly from his publisher, without DRM, because it was unavailable to me through Amazon. It was the first or last book (I forget) in a five book series. The other four were available to me via Amazon (very cheap too), but I wanted to ensure I could get all 5 in the same format, before purchasing any.
That was a time, when I was still struggling over getting ebooks for authors where I had long collected their works as physical books. My thinking at the time, was keep to physical, unless a new author or new series. Now, because I like ebooks so much, prefer to read them, and because DRM hasn't proved an issue for me, I just buy as ebook ... except perhaps for a final book in a series, where I have all the others as physical.

And then other authors have little control over their publisher, so cannot help, even though they want to ... like Robin Hobb.

[Timboli]

@barryem - I understand what you are saying, and I am prepared to cut them slack, but they need to do the same, once made aware of a mistake or unfairness.

If they want me to do the right thing, then they need to too. As it is, it is already an unbalanced affair in their favor.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by issybird

There's an apparent irony here.

One wonders how much time you've squandered on your moral crusade. This is the cause that merits such an effort? It seems you could have read War and Peace in the time spent trying to read the fourth part of a fan-fiction novella. Or done your spring cleaning. Or volunteered at a food pantry. You catch my drift.

For my part, there's no overstating how entirely out of proportion to the perceived "injustice" (that isn't, objectively speaking, no matter what you've "determined") I find this to be. If this is how you get your jollies, that's fine. I spend a fair amount of time here myself. But I don't consider it a higher calling.

You do rather think highly of yourself and your opinion don't you, and I've detected a bias all along with your attitude toward me. You have a right to do so, I suppose ... it's mostly a free world and we live in Democratic countries.

In answer to your absurdity, I said the following elsewhere.

Every bit counts .... and one day an acorn turns into a great big Oak tree.

And while they don't care about me, I am sure they care about profits, and while I can influence even one other to think twice about using them or to be very cautious when doing so, then I've done my bit. If everyone did that, then big companies would eventually be forced to take notice. Some of us have to set examples, despite the odds. I am sure, that Amazon want people to trust them, despite that being a one way street. To my mind, if they can't be trusted to deal with the little issues like mine, then how can you trust they will deal with the bigger issues, if and when they might turn up ... which by what I have read, has occurred for some?

And then like I said to soso, good old Group Therapy and letting off steam. I have an angst, as I am sure others do, so an angst shared is a pain lessened.

P.S. While I have still been buying some ebooks from them (hard to avoid that, since I bought into their world by purchasing a couple of Kindles), they have definitely already lost a few sales to me and that will be ongoing. So in the end, it will be more their loss than mine.

I also have my good old backup plan, because clearly I cannot trust them, as this latest incident and a few previous ones have shown me, and stories I have heard from others. That involves the unethical beast called DRM, but I won't discuss that here, but let's just say, that the moment I can no longer tame that beast, is the moment I no longer purchase ebooks from Amazon ... and since spreading my story around, I have become aware of many many others who feel the same.

And in addition to that, I enjoy a good old chinwag, and engaging with people, fellow ebook enthusiasts in this instance, plus getting to know people ... like yourself for instance. I have really appreciated what some have said, and even taken on new perspectives in some instances.

Doesn't seem like you like chatting or the vagaries of language very much ... odd for a MOD at a place that deals with the written word. Irony indeed.

Perhaps after wasting time with Amazon Help, I am making up for lost ground, by chatting more pleasantly here. Then of course I am well known elsewhere for my love of Word Walls.

Enjoy your day!

P.S. In fact, I've gotten to know you so well, that I fully realize that the term 'Control Freak', really got to you. Perhaps I even intended it should.

P.S.S. And just so people can reflect on this, including yourself. You attacked me, either because you don't like me or what I am saying. Why? I can only presume you think you are superior. I on the other hand, don't attack people for having a different view to mine, only after they attack me first, do I then attack them, and then it is just part of my defense response. Clearly we are very different people, and only one of us believes in a respectful robust conversation and has a good grasp of language ... including the use of the word Irony.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Timboli

@barryem - I understand what you are saying, and I am prepared to cut them slack, but they need to do the same, once made aware of a mistake or unfairness.

If they want me to do the right thing, then they need to too. As it is, it is already an unbalanced affair in their favor.

I can't really say that you're wrong in that attitude but there's the problem that you can move quickly and they can't. You're a person and you can make your own choices with a single mind and then act on them. Corporations really can't do that. Amazon is amazingly flexible in it's policies; more than probably any other corporation. I worked for a very flexible corporation but we were rigid compared to Amazon. And Amazon is rigid compared to a single individual. That's just how it is.

At least give Amazon credit for being polite and friendly when they stick it to you.

Barry

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by barryem

At least give Amazon credit for being polite and friendly when they stick it to you.

Barry

I can't argue with that, and indeed I have been as polite to them as they have to me, not making it personal at all, despite feeling frustrated and put out.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

There's a Kindle World for Kurt Vonnegut and several "big" production television shows (Wayward Pines, The 100, Veronica Mars, etc..) so it's not only things that Amazon is in full control of (distribution rights-wise).

Thanks for filling me in. I like the idea of Kindle Worlds when I first read about it on Joe Konrathr's blog, though I haven't read any of the books myself. I wasn't aware of some of the more high profile worlds. As we don't know what rights Amazon has with the authors/publishers of these worlds, some or all could be geographically limited. And latepaul's post could well be correct.

[LadyKate]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Seeing as you brought it up.

I was wondering if those of you who are happy to remove DRM have ever considered how easy it would be for Amazon etc to embed an ID in every ebook file that gets sent to you, at the moment it is sent? An ID that is related to you only. It could easily fail to be detected and removed when the DRM is removed.

If they did such, then they could track the movement of the ebook, whenever the device it resides on connects back to their store, during a Sync etc.

I have to ask you, how did you contact Amazon. I'm having a right problem. I decided I'm not going to renew a domain I have and don't really use much except as a signin and email account. I'm in the process of changing thing from that account to the domain I am keeping.

Amazon was one of the one's I was changing. I entered the info. Got a message I already had an account of that name. Tried to get them to send me an email to get the password. Didn't work. Must have done an automatic click along the way because it accepted the new address BUT when I got logged in at the new address I had nothing in my account. No info, No credit card info, NO BOOKS ARGH. No purchase history. Now I try to find a way to get them to link the account I was changing the email on to the amazon@mydomain.com account and I can not find a way to email them. There is nothing at all that will let me put in info about my problem.

How did you finally get into a position to send email to them. HELP. If you have an address or hints on how to at least get near communicating with a person versus the "LAND OF FORMS" I have been struggling with.

Thanks

PS good thing I have all my purchases backed up

[darryl]

@LadyKate. I can recommend the online chat from their webpage. I've found they can resolve most things quickly and easily.

[Blossom]

LadyKate it's best to call them for this kind of problem. You are going to need to be able verify who you are.

Here's their number
1-888-280-3321

Sent from my XT1528

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by Timboli

I can't argue with that, and indeed I have been as polite to them as they have to me, not making it personal at all, despite feeling frustrated and put out.

Perhaps you need to give it a little break. After all, your arguments (in a rhetorical sense) are getting a bit old. I think we get it.

Why not read a few books and relax? Enjoy the day. Go out for dinner. See a great movie. Take the dog (or your animal of choice) with you to the park. Bring your ebook, wife, or girlfriend along with you. Or all three!

Relax and have some fun!