Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize for Literature

[BearMountainBooks]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Even in a cappella there are still words. They don't have to be sung. WHen I read the lyrics to a great song, I am reading them for meaning. After hearing a song I often look up the lyrics to have a better understanding of the story. For me, the story often matters more than other musical facts. I'm sure writing a song is different than writing a longer story because even writing a short story is different than writing a novel. Some people can tell a story in a few words. Others take longer. But generally speaking, the songs I like most have a good story AND good music and I tend to evaluate those separately. I've listened to many a good song that doesn't really stick with me because, while the music is enjoyable, it lacks the depth of story. Or I enjoy a particular voice/talent (Vince Gill for example) but I tire of his constant cheatin' and drinkin' stories. He needs better stories because I swear that woman has left him so many times...

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

We'll have to agree to disagree. Even in a cappella there are still words. They don't have to be sung. WHen I read the lyrics to a great song, I am reading them for meaning. After hearing a song I often look up the lyrics to have a better understanding of the story. For me, the story often matters more than other musical facts. I'm sure writing a song is different than writing a longer story because even writing a short story is different than writing a novel. Some people can tell a story in a few words. Others take longer. But generally speaking, the songs I like most have a good story AND good music and I tend to evaluate those separately. I've listened to many a good song that doesn't really stick with me because, while the music is enjoyable, it lacks the depth of story. Or I enjoy a particular voice/talent (Vince Gill for example) but I tire of his constant cheatin' and drinkin' stories. He needs better stories because I swear that woman has left him so many times...

Sounds like he is following in the tradition of Hank Williams and Conway Twitty.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

We'll have to agree to disagree. Even in a cappella there are still words. They don't have to be sung.

You may have misunderstood me. Of course there are words. I was listing forms where the music was sometimes ONLY words, not separate instrumentation played along to words, as you suggested.

My point was that music is not just instrumental music and literature sandwiched together and served on the same plate.
The words in music can BE the music, and composing words for music is a distinct art form from poetry or literary prose.

Not that I necessarily think that the Nobel for literature should exclude music, any more than I think it should exclude poetry.

WHen I read the lyrics to a great song, I am reading them for meaning. After hearing a song I often look up the lyrics to have a better understanding of the story. For me, the story often matters more than other musical facts. I'm sure writing a song is different than writing a longer story because even writing a short story is different than writing a novel. Some people can tell a story in a few words. Others take longer. But generally speaking, the songs I like most have a good story AND good music and I tend to evaluate those separately.

There is a huge amount of music, even music with words, that doesn't tell a verbal story. Even some of Dylan's (I think...).
Songwriters can communicate in other ways than narrative, just as poets, or painters for that matter, can.
(BTW, Story songs are my personal favorites as well.)

Or I enjoy a particular voice/talent (Vince Gill for example) but I tire of his constant cheatin' and drinkin' stories. He needs better stories because I swear that woman has left him so many times...

You know what you get when you play a country song backwards...?

ApK

[BearMountainBooks]

Music and writing are very different. I am no good at music, but I write a lot. Could I write a song? The lyrics, yes. The music, not so much. I lack a certain technical understanding and instinct.

If you play a Vince Gill song backwards you'll get a "I was not foolin' round on you" and some other kind of drinkin' song. He's in his own bad habit and needs to break out with some new ideas! (His last album was "Down to my last bad habit." There was an intended pun there.) And he really is a great talent. I just don't happen to like cheatin' and drinkin' song. I mean, there are plenty of other country themes. He could sing about gettin' run over by a train or something. Lots of country songs have someone getting run over by a train. ("Grandma got run over by a reindeer.")

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

We'll have to agree to disagree. Even in a cappella there are still words. They don't have to be sung. WHen I read the lyrics to a great song, I am reading them for meaning. After hearing a song I often look up the lyrics to have a better understanding of the story. For me, the story often matters more than other musical facts. I'm sure writing a song is different than writing a longer story because even writing a short story is different than writing a novel. Some people can tell a story in a few words. Others take longer. But generally speaking, the songs I like most have a good story AND good music and I tend to evaluate those separately. I've listened to many a good song that doesn't really stick with me because, while the music is enjoyable, it lacks the depth of story. Or I enjoy a particular voice/talent (Vince Gill for example) but I tire of his constant cheatin' and drinkin' stories. He needs better stories because I swear that woman has left him so many times...

Prose Poetry
Narrative Poetry

[ApK]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Music and writing are very different. I am no good at music, but I write a lot. Could I write a song? The lyrics, yes. The music, not so much. I lack a certain technical understanding and instinct.

Writing and writing for music are very different. You could write the lyrics...but would it be a hit? A classic? A generation's anthem? A million strangers' favorite song?

Lot's of good writers and poets don't make good lyricists. That's all I was trying to say.

If you play a Vince Gill song backwards

What do you get when you play a country song backwards?

You get your wife back, you get your dog back, you get your truck back....

[theducks]

Originally Posted by drofgnal

Yea, for some reason all commercial versions of BOTT were released at 2% faster than the artist intended, with the exception of a 1981 vinyl release. I had hoped that MOFI would have corrected that with the latest release, but did not.

If you use VLC media player (available for all OS), you can digitally slow it down without the artifacts of slowing a turntable

[ApK]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Prose Poetry
Narrative Poetry

...lyrical poetry
visual poetry
poetry in motion....

And let's not forget poetry poetry.

p.s. That "lyrical" was referring to the words of songs, not the actual poetic style....

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by ApK

Writing and writing for music are very different. You could write the lyrics...but would it be a hit? A classic? A generation's anthem? A million strangers' favorite song?

Lot's of good writers and poets don't make good lyricists. That's all I was trying to say.


What do you get when you play a country song backwards?

You get your wife back, you get your dog back, you get your truck back....

You forgot the trailer house.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by ApK

Writing and writing for music are very different. You could write the lyrics...but would it be a hit? A classic? A generation's anthem? A million strangers' favorite song?

Lot's of good writers and poets don't make good lyricists. That's all I was trying to say.


What do you get when you play a country song backwards?

You get your wife back, you get your dog back, you get your truck back....

In Gill's case I'm not sure he's ever lost the truck or the dog. He's been too focused on the whole cheatin' wife thing. I could be wrong. I know there was mention of a truck in one of the songs, but I think he took it when the wife was cheatin'. He did drive a John Deer to the bar once when the wife took the keys to keep him from hangin' around with the good ole boys... (and that is actually one of his more fun songs.)

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

In Gill's case I'm not sure he's ever lost the truck or the dog. He's been too focused on the whole cheatin' wife thing. I could be wrong. I know there was mention of a truck in one of the songs, but I think he took it when the wife was cheatin'. He did drive a John Deer to the bar once when the wife took the keys to keep him from hangin' around with the good ole boys... (and that is actually one of his more fun songs.)

Oh so he is doing the opposite of Conway and company. Though tells me country music hasn't particularly changed in decades.
Country music is only Make Believe.

And Maria, ApK was doing one of the oldest jokes in the book.

[HarryT]

Unlike the other Nobels, the Literature prize is generally a recognition of lifetime achievement rather than one specific work. Although Mr Dylan's style of writing isn't to my personal taste, I certainly think his achievements in his field make him a meritorious winner.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by ApK

The words in music can BE the music, and composing words for music is a distinct art form from poetry or literary prose.

Karl Jenkins's ADIEMUS albums.
It helped he had Miriam Stockeley to verbalize for him but his invented "language" and recording techniques made for some awesome "instrumentals". No overt story but the rhythms evoked emotion pretty clearly.

I was reading a discussion in the Wall Street Journal (several pages worth) about Dylan being awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature. In it mention was made of Rabindranath Tagore the man who was awarded the prize in 1913. He is one of the Nobel winners that I have read and unlike many of the winners in the early days I would say he was Nobel worth. He was awarded the prize for his poetry, but the WSJ article made the point that he was primarily a musician and oral story teller.



Regarding the worth of the Nobel prizes, and other prizes for writing. Yes, generally just the opinion of a small group. Yes it can be politically motivated or motivated by other factors not clearly related to literary merit. But I think that such awards do serve to draw attention to books that more often than not do deserve such attention. Before I embarked on my project to read something by every Nobel winner Tomas Tranströmer was brought to my attention because he won the Nobel. In my opinion well deserved, he wrote fantastic stuff.


Awards based on popular opinion seem to me to mean less than when a more select panel makes the choice. I don't read Sci-Fi but could hardly help but read something about the recent history of the top awards for that genre. Sick puppies? Rabid puppies?

[kennyc]

Yep. I'm with ya there...