What sort of ebook reader do we really want?

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's correct. LCD displays don't flicker - the display remains absolutely static, with zero flickering, for as long as power is applied. As you say, the refresh rate of an LCD screen is purely to allow video, etc, to be displayed smoothly. It doesn't in itself make the display flicker. However, the LED backlighting that LCD displays use can flicker (normally at the mains frequency of 50/60Hz).

I think you might find, that the flickering still occurs (pulse modulation), but techniques are used to mask it ... counteract it if you like.

And what one persons consciously sees doesn't always match that of another. Take my wife for instance with our Sony Bravia LED LCD TV. She sees flickering, I don't. She also has to wear glasses, I don't. She has had issues with many devices because of screen flicker.

If the flicker is there, whether you can consciously detect it or not, it taxes the eyes and mind. So my understanding of LCD technology, is that it will always have a visual/mental impact, though of course they try all sorts of things to mitigate or lessen the impact.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Lucky you, but at this point for me, I am sticking with E-ink Kindles. Alas I believe the newer ones have adverts unless you pay for other.


Most people, and I am talking about everyone, not just current ereader users, want a suitable replacement to a physical book. I think logic will tell you that.


How could I or anyone possible do that? And you don't need to. See previous answer.


I think you need to re-read what I said.
Any cover except a metal briefcase, will only be a preventative measure ... and even that really.

Long before I bought my first ereader, I visited this forum and others and followed the stories of broken screens for years ... in fact it put me off buying one (despite how badly I wanted one) ... and the Kindle Keyboard with it's built-in light cover, was the first instance of finding something that gave me a fair level of faith. Many of those broken screens could have been prevented by a decent cover ... and I stress that last, as most covers I have come across, are not decent enough.

Here's a short list.
Protect from keys & metal money etc ... in any bag you place your ereader.
Have a padded solid enough cover, that gives bounce when falling off a bed etc (don't forget you need distance between edge of cover and ereader too, and it is held firmly in place, for those times a cover lands on its edge or end).
Have the same for accidentally leaning on the ereader ... especially in a bag where you may have forgotten it is there ... out of sight out of mind.
Bags can also be knocked or kicked on public transport ... and even pushed against.
Things can also be placed on bags, and unless that is a bag of cement or several bricks etc, you should be able to protect with a decent cover.
And if you are bike rider, and have ereader in a bag, it should be able to survive you coming off in an accident ... bar hitting a brick wall or getting run over etc.
And the list goes on.

You are right on the advertisements on the kindles if you buy a kindle with special offers.
(Note: I'm cheap so I wouldn't pay the extra $20 to remove them.)
Although I did temporarily get the special offers removed from my kindle touch. I forgot to connect to wifi for several months. It had a message too. Connect to wifi.

Your comment about covers does not apply to all ereaders which is why I pointed out what the kobo did.

[Jason90]

Originally Posted by Timboli

I think you might find, that the flickering still occurs (pulse modulation), but techniques are used to mask it ... counteract it if you like.

And what one persons consciously sees doesn't always match that of another. Take my wife for instance with our Sony Bravia LED LCD TV. She sees flickering, I don't. She also has to wear glasses, I don't. She has had issues with many devices because of screen flicker.

If the flicker is there, whether you can consciously detect it or not, it taxes the eyes and mind. So my understanding of LCD technology, is that it will always have a visual/mental impact, though of course they try all sorts of things to mitigate or lessen the impact.

Spot on,i came across a saying by someone not too long ago,screens act as a narcotic for the eyes,there's something about the way current screen tech works that makes people 'stick' to them and i believe alot of computer/internet addiction can actually be traced back to this fact.

I'm also able to absorb and understand what i'm reading much better when reading from an eink display than an lcd.

I wish one day we get a paper ink display that can replace tradition lcd screens for day to day use.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Timboli

I think you might find, that the flickering still occurs (pulse modulation), but techniques are used to mask it ... counteract it if you like.

I'm not disagreeing with you; just saying that the flickering is in the backlighting, not in the LCD screen itself. LCD screens do not flicker, although their lighting may do.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by Timboli

... and I stress that last, as most covers I have come across, are not decent enough.

This is why I use homemade cover for all my e-ink readers.
With the first Sony PRS-500 I used the original cover, but I have made a sturdy plywood box that I used for transport whenever the reader left the house.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Jason90

...... I wish one day we get a paper ink display that can replace tradition lcd screens for day to day use.

Me too, and I think that is the end game for some developers, but costs related to the technology, not to mention tech issues, are what will make or break eventually. Especially as most will say, but my LCD screen is just fine ... that's why you see so many buying iPads and Tablets to read their ebooks ... not really conscious they are paying a price for that.

As they say, it is early days yet for the impact of such intense viewing habits that have developed. I am especially concerned about my kids eyes etc, from their constant use of their phones ... Facebook, Ebooks, Internet, etc.

Add that to Tablets, TV and other computer devices, and their eyes just never get a rest.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by kacir

This is why I use homemade cover for all my e-ink readers.
With the first Sony PRS-500 I used the original cover, but I have made a sturdy plywood box that I used for transport whenever the reader left the house.

I actually contemplated doing something similar myself a few times.

So far, I eventually found covers that were worthy enough, even for my larger Samsung Tablet ... which I also managed to find a zipped padded pencil case for, cover and all .... which I thought a brilliant touch .... that's about as bouncy as you can get ... and I could even use it as a very slim pillow.

With my Paperwhite 2 it took a while to find a good enough cover, and eventually I had to compromise, by using a thick rubber band to keep it closed tight when not in use, as the sturdy cover I got, didn't have a mechanism for keeping it shut.

I admit to being extremely cautious on how I use and store my ebook devices despite their covers. Plus my wife is the only one I am willing to lend my Kindles to .... kids, friends and other family be damned ... they can get their own ... for which I am happy to provide (lend) non DRM copies of ebooks ... they can even forget to return them ... that's how brilliant ebooks are.

P.S. I have a high 4 poster Queen bed, so it pays to be cautious, when it comes to bounce etc. This is especially necessary for me, who can struggle with staying awake until the chapter end is reached .... and my conscious grip of the ereader is lost. For me, that is when my ereaders are most vulnerable ... no padded case for starters and not strapped shut ... so they could easily land screen first. But provided the floor is clear of damaging items, then the screen should still be a millimeter or two off the ground surface due to (elastic or leather) cover restraints ... especially as my floor is carpet.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Timboli

I actually contemplated doing something similar myself a few times.

So far, I eventually found covers that were worthy enough, even for my larger Samsung Tablet ... which I also managed to find a zipped padded pencil case for, cover and all .... which I thought a brilliant touch .... that's about as bouncy as you can get ... and I could even use it as a very slim pillow.

With my Paperwhite 2 it took a while to find a good enough cover, and eventually I had to compromise, by using a thick rubber band to keep it closed tight when not in use, as the sturdy cover I got, didn't have a mechanism for keeping it shut.

I admit to being extremely cautious on how I use and store my ebook devices despite their covers. Plus my wife is the only one I am willing to lend my Kindles to .... kids, friends and other family be damned ... they can get their own ... for which I am happy to provide (lend) non DRM copies of ebooks ... they can even forget to return them ... that's how brilliant ebooks are.

P.S. I have a high 4 poster Queen bed, so it pays to be cautious, when it comes to bounce etc. This is especially necessary for me, who can struggle with staying awake until the chapter end is reached .... and my conscious grip of the ereader is lost. For me, that is when my ereaders are most vulnerable ... no padded case for starters and not strapped shut ... so they could easily land screen first. But provided the floor is clear of damaging items, then the screen should still be a millimeter or two off the ground surface due to (elastic or leather) cover restraints ... especially as my floor is carpet.

Have you checked out the Pelican cases?

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Have you checked out the Pelican cases?

No I haven't.

I am guessing you mean the Tablet ones here?

None looked good to me on the Phone & Tablet page. Are there others elsewhere?

My covers are like a hard leather book, with the front all one thickish piece, none of those with a fold in the middle.

This is pretty close to what I use for my Paperwhite, with a large rubber band to keep it closed when not in use. Mine is a Black M-Edge anyway.



Me using a large rubber band, gives it that personal touch.

My Samsung Tablet has a Targus case, something like this. It has its own elastic restrainer. All of which fit into something like this - which has more padding than is readily apparent. It is a nice snug fit. Once again, the large padded DATA SHEIL pencil/tablet case, give it a personal touch.

Mine is two tones of blue, darker and lighter than shown.
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It looks very much like this, same color but smaller, no strap, no outside handle, black tough cloth tape handles are inside bag at top.
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And just to be completest, here's my Kindle Keyboard model and cover, found here.

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[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Timboli

No I haven't.

I am guessing you mean the Tablet ones here?

None looked good to me on the Phone & Tablet page. Are there others elsewhere?

My covers are like a hard leather book, with the front all one thickish piece, none of those with a fold in the middle.

This is pretty close to what I use for my Paperwhite, with a large rubber band to keep it closed when not in use. Mine is a Black M-Edge anyway.

Me using a large rubber band, gives it that personal touch.

Yes those were the ones I was thinking.
Cool cover you have there. Now do you have different colored rubber bands for different days of the week.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

.... Now do you have different colored rubber bands for different days of the week.

If only. It is a bit like my socks, it will do until it perishes ... though they at least get washed ... occasionally.

I had to update the original images above for the Tablet stuff, as I eventually found ones that were more correct. So if you missed the changes, look again.

[Dr. Drib]

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[Timboli]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm not disagreeing with you; just saying that the flickering is in the backlighting, not in the LCD screen itself. LCD screens do not flicker, although their lighting may do.

Are you talking physical screen or image that gets painted on the screen?

I'm no tech guru, I'm just a hobby programmer, but the way I understand it from stuff I have read over years, is that the E-Ink method, is to create a shades of grey image by painting ink dots that stay in stasis by a trickle charge. That image is not recreated and is only painted again on some change ... Font related or page change. Because it is a minute charge, that is why the battery lasts so long.

On the other hand, the image painted on an LCD/LED screen is constantly getting recreated, pixel-wise, hence the flickering. To counter the flickering, they use a backlight that alternates with the flickering, giving the visual illusion of no flickering. It is a pulse modulation scenario. The flickering is always there though, and supposedly your brain can detect it at a subconscious level, even if your eyes don't report it to you.

Like many things in this world, they only tell you part of the truth, when they say Flicker Free.

That said, it would definitely be better for your eyes, than not having that backlight. E-Ink however is a lot better still.

It is hard to see them coming up with a better alternative to E-Ink, only a better version of E-Ink that supports color.

In the end, it is all about how the image gets to the screen and is maintained. So in that regard the LCD method will stay the same, if it is still called that.

All of the above, is just my loose understanding of what has been filtered into my brain, and without a doubt, much is missing from my descriptions ... and my memory may even be faulty ... or missing bits at the very least.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Timboli

I'm no tech guru, I'm just a hobby programmer, but the way I understand it from stuff I have read over years, is that the E-Ink method, is to create a shades of grey image by painting ink dots that stay in stasis by a trickle charge. That image is not recreated and is only painted again on some change ... Font related or page change. Because it is a minute charge, that is why the battery lasts so long.

An eink screen requires no power whatsoever to maintain an image. Draw something on the screen, take away the power, and the image stays there.

On the other hand, the image painted on an LCD/LED screen is constantly getting recreated, pixel-wise, hence the flickering.

No, that's not so. An LCD screen isn't like a CRT, in which every pixel has to be periodically refreshed or else it fades. Draw an image on an LCD screen, maintain power to the screen and the image stays there, absolutely flicker-free. The reason that some people can see flickering on an LCD screen is because of the backlighting, which on modern LCD screens is done with LEDs. The way that the brightness of the screen is adjusted is to apply a voltage waveform to the LEDs, so that they brighten and dim in a very rapid cycle. For most people, it's too fast to see, but some people can see it. It's not the screen that's flickering, though, but the lighting.

[Timboli]

@Dr. Drib - My apologies for the oversize images .... and they took me a while to find too.

I was hoping the BBS code resize option would work, but it didn't.