David Nicholls: Browsing bookshops then buying online is a 'genteel form of shoplifti

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

The last time I clicked on New / Science Fiction & Fantasy at Amazon...95% of the books are about two animal/men who want to get it on with a single female from Earth...

Really?

How odd, because this is what I get from Science Fiction in print:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_...379206&rnid=25

And for the last 90 days:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_...nid=1250225011

The only "beast/alien" love triangle atop that list involves scotsmen, who I've generally understood to be homo sapiens.

And pretty good engineers, too.

[Turtle91]

Books / New Releases / Science Fiction & Fantasy :

Taming the Tiger
Bear Seeking Bride
Fur-Given
The Bear's Bride
Tamed by the Bear



Hey...I'm all about paranormal romance... Edward and Bella were awesome - just ask my daughter

Those books should fall under the paranormal romance genre, not under science fiction and fantasy. But those are the tags the authors/publishers put on the file so it would show up in the more popular SF&F category

...sooo, there is some truth to the myth statement that it is difficult to find good books online...one has to wade through all the unwanted to get to the wanted.

...unfortunately I have a self-imposed predilection to buy from amazon because I find it very simple to remove DRM and convert to ePub. Sooo...back to browsing in B&M stores and buying online...while not holding my breath for B&M stores to get with the times and provide the item I'm looking for...

[joblack]

Congratulations to Mr. Nicholls. He has been added to my 'red list' of authors and books to avoid.

[patrickt]

I consider it neither shoplifting nor comparison shopping.

I consider it rather foolish. I browse online and can even read a sample of the book is I wish. I can read reviews if I choose. I don't know what I'd gain by going to a bookstore although I dearly loved bookstores.

[Barty]

I think this is a variation on what economists call the tragedy of the commons. If you go into a b&m with the express purpose of looking at or demoing a product (I'm talking any product in general not just books) with no intention to buy it there, you are not doing anything illegal or even unethical arguably. You are simply pursuing your own best interest at some real but hard to quantify cost to the store and other buyers and ultimately yourself. If you believe the cost is zero, then simply imagine more and more people doing the same and it is easy to see that it is not sustainable for the b&m store.

A lot of people here think that is just fine and the b&m should just go out of business. I happen to think that will be a shame.

I think eventually what will happen is the amazons of the world will buy out the b&m and use the space as their own showroom. Like what Apple does with their Apple store. Or b&m stores will charge a small entry fee that is deducted when you make a purchase. Because relying on enlightened self interest will not keep you in business.

[PandathePanda]

Originally Posted by Barty

A lot of people here think that is just fine and the b&m should just go out of business.

Or they can "evolve". A Christian Bookshop chain/Publisher (CUM) that I know (mostly the one I visited regularly) had "evolved" their strategy to cater for ebook/online shopping. Not sure if it's available everywhere, but this one you can go to the sales point and ask for an ebook version of the book you have in your hand, and you can buy the ebook there at the till, if they have it available on their digital bookstore.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

When you buy a new car, you go to a dealer and test drive. Then you haggle on price.

This has a practical application for me because we buy cars new, then keeping them for many years until virtually worthless, and pay cash. And -- I dislike haggling.

One alternative is to buy a no-haggle brand like Scion, which (unless there has been recent policy change) allows dealer discounting, but requires every purchaser, during a calendar month, to be given the same price.

Another alternative is to buy from a no-haggle dealer.

In both cases, a dealer offering an attractive no-haggle discounted price is rare, and thus likely to be a considerable distance from us. So we don't want to go there twice. And my wife Barbara wants a test drive. So it is tempting to test locally and go to a different dealer when ready to buy.

In a Scion forum, I once suggested that the test ride is a required service dealers provide to buyers under terms of their franchise agreement with the manufacturer -- so it is perfectly fine for us to get a test drive from a dealer we know we won't buy from. One of the posting dealers politely disagreed, and I have to say he made a good case.

Unlike a car dealer, a bookseller isn't a franchisee of the publisher. The local bookseller deals with a wholesaler, not the publisher. And online sellers do not use the same (or, more likely, any) wholesaler. So if there is no chance of buying from the bookseller, browsing there is, I'm afraid, not the highest moral choice.

Originally Posted by joblack

Congratulations to Mr. Nicholls. He has been added to my 'red list' of authors and books to avoid.

Hopefully this is because you read to get new perspectives, and since Nicholls thinks like you do, it's pointless to read him. Have I got that right

[shalym]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Unlike a car dealer, a bookseller isn't a franchisee of the publisher. The local bookseller deals with a wholesaler, not the publisher. And online sellers do not use the same (or, more likely, any) wholesaler. So if there is no chance of buying from the bookseller, browsing there is, I'm afraid, not the highest moral choice.

So...as others have mentioned, I'm sure you find it just as immoral to look at reviews on Amazon before buying something in a brick and mortar store, right?

Shari

[theducks]

Originally Posted by shalym

So...as others have mentioned, I'm sure you find it just as immoral to look at reviews on Amazon before buying something in a brick and mortar store, right?

Shari

Amazon 'Product Reviews' (and Ratings) are mostly provided free by USERS

Amazon just Hosts those. (And monitors those for issues)
There are costs to run the server farms, but that is small potatoes to what a Paid Ad Agency would get for generating that spin

You are also free to check the Newspapers Book or Entertainment sections for reviews.

[Katsunami]

I think it's a stupid premise.

Who will ever go to a book shop to browse through books, then come back home, and buy the e-book at Amazon or Kobo? I think nobody ever will; no-one will even browse books and then buy the p-book at Amazon... why would you? Just read the Kindle preview, or use the Look Inside function before buying. Nobody needs to see or feel a book before buying it.

The other way around would be much more logical, for people who like p-books and want to support local book shops: browse books online, read preview chapters online, and then go buy the book in a local store.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

I think it's a stupid premise.

Who will ever go to a book shop to browse through books, then come back home, and buy the e-book at Amazon or Kobo? I think nobody ever will; no-one will even browse books and then buy the p-book at Amazon... why would you? Just read the Kindle preview, or use the Look Inside function before buying. Nobody needs to see or feel a book before buying it.

Well, I have done that. Browsing a bookstore is a way to discover new books. I usually took a photo of the book I wanted or wrote down the title. And browsing in a bookstore was a pleasure.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by theducks

Amazon 'Product Reviews' (and Ratings) are mostly provided free by USERS

Amazon just Hosts those. (And monitors those for issues)
There are costs to run the server farms, but that is small potatoes to what a Paid Ad Agency would get for generating that spin

You are also free to check the Newspapers Book or Entertainment sections for reviews.

Ah...but Amazon hosts those reviews as a service to their customers. If someone who has no intention of buying from Amazon is using those reviews to help choose what to buy, there is no moral difference between that and browsing a brick and mortar store when you have no intention of buying from that store.

To make this not strictly about Amazon vs B&M bookstores, consider Best Buy. If I go to bestbuy.com and look at reviews for televisions, (knowing that I won't buy from them) and then go to a different store to buy the tv, is that considered moral? What if I go to the physical Best Buy store and look at the TVs (again, knowing I won't buy from them) and then go to a different store? If one is moral and the other not, then why?

Shari

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by tompe

Well, I have done that. Browsing a bookstore is a way to discover new books.

Nah. Mostly you'll just discover currently popular books.

There are much better ways nowadays, such as using the Literature Map.

Originally Posted by theducks

There are costs to run the server farms, but that is small potatoes to what a Paid Ad Agency would get for generating that spin

Seeming as ad agencies pay a great deal to reach my eyeballs, does that mean that I'm obligated to buy their products?

I suppose a big part of the divide is whether you see B&M shops as serving the business or the customer. If it is there to serve the customer, then their services should be paid for. If their services are there for the betterment of the business, then the customer should not be obligated to pay for those services.

I see business decisions as something that serve the business. If a business thinks that mailorder will reduce expenses and improve profits, then they should base their decision on that. If a business thinks that retail space will increase their sales and improve profits, then they should base their decision on that. Likewise for employees. If a business thinks that low cost sales staff who do little more than direct customers to an aisle will reduce costs and improve profitability, then they should go that route. If a business thinks that knowledgable sales representatives will increase sales and improve profitability, then they should base their decision on that. Notice that the customer's interests never (directly) enter the picture here.

If a business owner thinks that B&M is the way to go, then their job is to justify that position to their potential customers. Insisting that comparison shopping, erm "showrooming", is genteel shoplifting strikes me as being to the detriment of the customer and for the benefit of the business. I'm sorry, but I'm not obligated to pay for those business decisions if I walk out of a store and buy online because I discover a cheaper price elsewhere.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Nah. Mostly you'll just discover currently popular books.

There are much better ways nowadays, such as using the Literature Map.

Or paid placement promotions trying to create popularity.
Not going to help anybody looking for more challenging or niche reads.