Is SF dying?

[LadyKate]

As someone who enjoys fantasy, paranormal and urban fantasy I find the category young adult to be a suggestion that it is going to appeal, by nature of the theme, to younger readers but I take that as a suggestion. As I said in a previous post, the level of reading difficulty is not really different from that of any other popular fiction.

I've discovered authors I've enjoyed by ignoring their category. It seems that most of the fantasy I've enjoyed over the years that was "lacking" sex scenes has been categorized young adult lol. (Oh to be young again)

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by LadyKate

As someone who enjoys fantasy, paranormal and urban fantasy I find the category young adult to be a suggestion that it is going to appeal, by nature of the theme, to younger readers but I take that as a suggestion. As I said in a previous post, the level of reading difficulty is not really different from that of any other popular fiction.

I've discovered authors I've enjoyed by ignoring their category. It seems that most of the fantasy I've enjoyed over the years that was "lacking" sex scenes has been categorized young adult lol. (Oh to be young again)

One of the reasons I love YA is that it doesn't usually have graphic violence or graphic sex. GENERALLY speaking, because the characters are young, you can expect some character development. But in the last few years, there have been a large number of "angst" YA books where there isn't much character development and there is a lot of Love Triangles (the bane of any genre if you ask me). Just about the one thing most real young adults lack is oodles of dating prospects--never mind two or three of the BEST LOOKING RICH AND SUCCESSFUL ALPHA characters in the world dying to be the "one and only."

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

What it SEEMS to mean now (and I was just informed of such by an author on another forum) is that it must have ROMANCE and SEX.

Maybe I'm a prude. I find sex scenes gratuitous. Is it not possible to have romance without the graphic slap of flesh on flesh? And they never include clean up, lol.

Maybe Young Adult romance is a reaction to all the sex that is fired at us. It's like the chaos volume has been turned up until we are deafened, and only the most garish can be heard.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Very well then. The detective's partner (valid to call "him" a detective as well) was an android. That make you happy?

Does it count as SciFi now?

There are multiple reasons why Caves of Steel qualifies as SciFi. Enough reasons to make everyone happy according to whichever qualification you would prefer.

My comment was a response to someone stating that The Caves of Steel was sci-fi and not a Detective story because the detective is an android, and Bailey is not an android. I take care to ensure my happiness does not rely on your posts.

[susan_cassidy]

Originally Posted by Rizla

And they never include clean-up.

I don't know about that. Many books I've read with sex scenes, the characters immediately jump in the shower.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

I don't know about that. Many books I've read with sex scenes, the characters immediately jump in the shower.

Yes, but where are the kleenex?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Rizla

My comment was a response to someone stating that The Caves of Steel was sci-fi and not a Detective story because the detective is an android, and Bailey is not an android.

There are two detectives, and one of them is an android.

I take care to ensure my happiness does not rely on your posts.

You are making a big mistake...

But seriously, there is no need to reject a possible explanation that can resolve your difficulties, merely because I am the one who said it.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

I don't know about that. Many books I've read with sex scenes, the characters immediately jump in the shower.

If they don't wash the sheets and wipe down the furniture, the room is likely to get rather ripe.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Nobody forces you to attend her party, either. In fact, I personally believe it will be a very small party, possibly held in a basement.

Catlady is perfectly welcome to miss out on all the fun, and die sad and lacking. Or indeed, to have her own interpretation whereby it is we who will die sad at having wasted our lives on pointless nonsensical garbage that rots the brain.

Who CARES what deluded fools who don't appreciate SciFi think? They cannot stop us from enjoying our books all the livelong day, now can it?

See how easy it is, when we just don't care about others' misinformed critique?
See how easy it is, when we don't get all excited over nothing?

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Something tells me that Quexos wasn't invited since, rumour has it, that the guest list is restricted to androids and aliens.

I suspect that it is the tone of the original post. It is one thing to say, "I don't like SF," and it is quite another to say, "I'll throw a party if it dies." The former is nothing more and nothing less than a person's taste. The latter implies that they will get pleasure when someone else is deprived of something that they enjoy.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I just think we'd all be happier if people would emulate me more... The only thing I derived from that original post by the alleged partier, is a determination to gloss over said partier's posts for (at least) this thread. It was nothing but a crank, so why react?
And I am happier for it (although thinking about it indirectly, by offering guidance to Quexos, may have slightly soiled my ability to ignore it...).

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And whoever's basement is used will be living there in his/her mother's house.

For making a little joke about SF that expressed my personal dislike for the genre, I am now characterized as:

1. sad and lacking
2. a deluded fool
3. misinformed
4. someone who gets pleasure from depriving others of enjoyment
5. a crank
6. someone who lives with mom

This kind of nasty overreaction suggests that some SF fans might want to abandon their favorite genre occasionally to work on polite social interaction with other human beings.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Catlady

This kind of nasty overreaction suggests that some SF fans might want to abandon their favorite genre occasionally to work on polite social interaction with other human beings.

Your remark about throwing a party was not remotely polite. Nor was it funny. I got the same impression, that someone will be pleased if one of my favorite genres should die. If it was really intended as a joke, then it was a very poor one.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Rizla

Maybe I'm a prude. I find sex scenes gratuitous. Is it not possible to have romance without the graphic slap of flesh on flesh? And they never include clean up, lol.

Maybe Young Adult romance is a reaction to all the sex that is fired at us. It's like the chaos volume has been turned up until we are deafened, and only the most garish can be heard.

Well, romance and sex are two different things. But not all books respect that division or even notice the difference or admit to the possibility.

I see from the comments below your "clean up" reference has gotten some attention, so I'll just refrain from commenting and enjoy everyone else's comments.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Catlady

For making a little joke about SF that expressed my personal dislike for the genre, I am now characterized as:

1. sad and lacking
2. a deluded fool
3. misinformed
4. someone who gets pleasure from depriving others of enjoyment
5. a crank
6. someone who lives with mom

This kind of nasty overreaction suggests that some SF fans might want to abandon their favorite genre occasionally to work on polite social interaction with other human beings.

My comments were just as much of a joke as yours was.

For the record, I do actually believe we were both joking.

I was attempting to demonstrate that worst comes to worst, no one actually has to take those jokes seriously.

That being said, I will admit to fighting poor jokes by making poor jokes back. If you don't like it, then don't throw the first punch.

Originally Posted by Catlady

This kind of nasty overreaction suggests that some SF fans might want to abandon their favorite genre occasionally to work on polite social interaction with other human beings.

Ah, I see now. You are a fellow SF reader!

[Dr. Drib]

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I'm also pretty sure that most dedicated SF readers could point out entire sub-genres that they don't like since it is an extremely broad category that caters to a wide range of tastes.

The quality of most SF literature depends upon the background of the reader. In my case, I get a lot out of stories that speculate about our near future. These are books that ask about the social consequences of things like biotechnology and artificial intelligence. Sometimes they deal with interpersonal relationships, but the scope is usually society. I'm okay with the latter because I frequently think about the consequences of actions on society at large. On the other hand, I don't get very much out of space operas. This doesn't mean that space operas are bad. It simply means that I don't have the background to appreciate them. Simply put, I don't have to tools to derive meaning out of war nor do I find pleasure reading about war. That being said, there are people who can. Why should I dismiss their tastes because of my own shortcomings?

All of this applies to other forms of literature as well. In order to get something out of a book, may it be intellectual or emotional, you have to be equipped to understand it. SF&F are the most obvious cases because they deal with things that do not exist. Yet other forms of literature are no different. To enjoy a book, it helps if you can relate to the protagonist, understand the cultural context, and know the trappings of Literature. (If you ever want to get a chuckle out of high school students who are studying the Great Gatsby, you simply have to say, "Sometimes, just sometimes, grass is green.")